Bryce Young

[Varking]

1 hour ago, Eric4280 said:

So you pooed my Frankie Luvu post which had nothing to do with that for fun? Or because you got in your feelings? You were one of the HEAVY pro stroud guys and since now you can’t FULLY be anti Bryce, you’ll try throwing these half jabs and get defensive. Own it. I saw a small qb that’s been critiqued from the jump, get destroyed blind side, multiple times, and get back up. His mental processing and offensive command was on display even if the numbers obviously don’t show it. Once that oline is sured up, he’ll flourish.

So you are picking to remember bits of what I have written in the past and dismiss the other bits. 

To be clear I have never been fully anti Bryce. My questions around him were always, and will always be his size. I worry that at his weight he will have a hard time taking hits over the years compared to some bigger guys. I never questioned his leadership, his talent, his mental makeup, none of it. The most you could say I have ever critiqued any part of his game is that he has an NFL average to below average arm. 

I have also been very clear in my posting history to note that I feel like anyone who we drafted was going to have success here. We have talent along the line, at WR, at TE and at RB. Its the most complete unit we have had on an offensive unit in some time here. We also have majorly experienced coaches. All the recipes are there for our young QB to succeed. 

If Bryce balls out, I will say he balled out. If he sucks I will say he sucks. And anything in between. I am sure he will flourish here. I'm not some hater who cropped up recently on this message board I have been around a long time and been honest in what I see for as long as I can remember here. I have no need to get defensive or be a homer about a specific player. I'm also a Florida Gator fan and I never let that get in the way of how I project these kids to be as pros which is why I never pitched for us to draft Kyle Trask despite him having the greatest passing single season in Gator history. 

As far as pooing, I believe pooing is stupid and I only ever use it in one scenario: I poo the guys who poo me. Its a message board. Just type your thought process and have a dialogue. I just click the dude who poo'd my post, go to their most recent post and click poo and chuckle. 

[MasterAwesome]

13 hours ago, Varking said:

So you are picking to remember bits of what I have written in the past and dismiss the other bits. 

To be clear I have never been fully anti Bryce. My questions around him were always, and will always be his size. I worry that at his weight he will have a hard time taking hits over the years compared to some bigger guys. I never questioned his leadership, his talent, his mental makeup, none of it. The most you could say I have ever critiqued any part of his game is that he has an NFL average to below average arm. 

I have also been very clear in my posting history to note that I feel like anyone who we drafted was going to have success here. We have talent along the line, at WR, at TE and at RB. Its the most complete unit we have had on an offensive unit in some time here. We also have majorly experienced coaches. All the recipes are there for our young QB to succeed. 

If Bryce balls out, I will say he balled out. If he sucks I will say he sucks. And anything in between. I am sure he will flourish here. I'm not some hater who cropped up recently on this message board I have been around a long time and been honest in what I see for as long as I can remember here. I have no need to get defensive or be a homer about a specific player. I'm also a Florida Gator fan and I never let that get in the way of how I project these kids to be as pros which is why I never pitched for us to draft Kyle Trask despite him having the greatest passing single season in Gator history. 

As far as pooing, I believe pooing is stupid and I only ever use it in one scenario: I poo the guys who poo me. Its a message board. Just type your thought process and have a dialogue. I just click the dude who poo'd my post, go to their most recent post and click poo and chuckle. 

You like to present yourself as this arbiter of objectivity who keeps it real.  But let's take a look at how you treat your guys vs. someone like Young.

Fields (all last year): poor guy played behind an awful o-line, can't hold it against him with that kind of supporting cast, etc.

Stroud (preseason game 1): only threw four passes, people are overreacting to his awful interception

Bryce (preseason game 1): meh, looked okay...didn't flash.  Didn't feel the pressure at times.  Tons of articles highlighting his disappointing debut (lol)

So Bryce threw two more passes than Stroud and you're pretty comfortable evaluating (i.e. criticizing) his performance, whereas Stroud's sample size was just far too small to be critical.  Also Bryce getting drilled multiple times behind awful protection was his fault that he didn't feel the pressure...but poor Fields who took a million sacks in college and also unsurprisingly a million sacks in the NFL is just a victim of his terrible o-line.  Nothing attributing his sacks to his own awareness like you've done to Bryce.

The double standards are pretty wild actually.  You think you are objective?  Far from it.

[Varking]

9 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

You like to present yourself as this arbiter of objectivity who keeps it real.  But let's take a look at how you treat your guys vs. someone like Young.

Fields (all last year): poor guy played behind an awful o-line, can't hold it against him with that kind of supporting cast, etc.

Stroud (preseason game 1): only threw four passes, people are overreacting to his awful interception

Bryce (preseason game 1): meh, looked okay...didn't flash.  Didn't feel the pressure at times.  Tons of articles highlighting his disappointing debut (lol)

So Bryce threw two more passes than Stroud and you're pretty comfortable evaluating (i.e. criticizing) his performance, whereas Stroud's sample size was just far too small to be critical.  Also Bryce getting drilled multiple times behind awful protection was his fault that he didn't feel the pressure...but poor Fields who took a million sacks in college and also unsurprisingly a million sacks in the NFL is just a victim of his terrible o-line.  Nothing attributing his sacks to his own awareness like you've done to Bryce.

The double standards are pretty wild actually.  You think you are objective?  Far from it.

That is an objective look. Fields played with no talent around him and a poor line. Is that up for dispute? Have I ever written he’s not at fault for some of his sacks? Nope. 
 

Stroud was out there for like 30 seconds and I acknowledged he threw an awful INT. But it’s one game and people overreacted to the pick. Is that up for dispute?

 

Bryce did not flash at all. He obviously didn’t feel the pressure on one of the bigger sacks. We didn’t convert any third downs and didn’t get a field goal or touchdown. That isn’t flashing. Is that up for dispute? 
 

But I’ve also defended Bryce on here that he hasn’t been given too much for his plate and said he didn’t look overwhelmed at all in his debut. 
 

What is so terrible about what I wrote? 
 

I like Fields and I am a fan of his and do want to see him do well. I’m not attached to Stroud like that so he’s not one of “my guys”. And I was openly excited for our first preseason game as I’ve written here on this site. And Bryce is a big reason for that. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Varking

[MasterAwesome]

32 minutes ago, Varking said:

That is an objective look. Fields played with no talent around him and a poor line. Is that up for dispute? Have I ever written he’s not at fault for some of his sacks? Nope. 
 

Stroud was out there for like 30 seconds and I acknowledged he threw an awful INT. But it’s one game and people overreacted to the pick. Is that up for dispute?

 

Bryce did not flash at all. He obviously didn’t feel the pressure on one of the bigger sacks. We didn’t convert any third downs and didn’t get a field goal or touchdown. That isn’t flashing. Is that up for dispute? 
 

But I’ve also defended Bryce on here that he hasn’t been given too much for his plate and said he didn’t look overwhelmed at all in his debut. 
 

What is so terrible about what I wrote? 
 

I like Fields and I am a fan of his and do want to see him do well. I’m not attached to Stroud like that so he’s not one of “my guys”. And I was openly excited for our first preseason game as I’ve written here on this site. And Bryce is a big reason for that. 

Yeah obviously there's truth in all of those evaluations.  The double standards are with the framing of your posts and what you choose to highlight when talking about a player unprompted.  There's a difference between not disputing that some of Fields' sacks were on him, vs. readily jumping at the opportunity to criticize him for not feeling the pressure on those sacks.  You have never done the latter for Fields, despite him leading the league in Sack Rate in each of the last two seasons.  You were quick to do so for Bryce's very first preseason game.  That's pretty telling.

Yes Bryce "not flashing" is up for dispute.  Plenty of people would argue that poise in the pocket and showing the ability to quickly go through progressions are areas you can "flash" in for your NFL debut.  Arguably those are the hardest traits for rookies to acquire in their transition to the NFL.  You seem to be one of those "Box Score" analysts who extracts all of his talking points straight from the Box Score, which meshes with the other thread where you extracted your talking points straight from article headlines rather than diving into the substance of the articles.

Your bar for objectivity seems to be that you don't egregiously lie about players.  That's a pretty silly bar.  You can be "not wrong" about your analyses but be heavily biased in your framing of certain players' performances.  Highlighting the positives of players you like and dismissing/ignoring the negatives, while highlighting the negatives of players you dislike and ignoring/dismissing the positives.  I don't even think you dislike Bryce, I think you're doing that petty thing that lots of people do where you spite-post because you're annoyed at how many people were/are hyping him up when you wanted someone else.

[Varking]

2 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Yeah obviously there's truth in all of those evaluations.  The double standards are with the framing of your posts and what you choose to highlight when talking about a player unprompted.  There's a difference between not disputing that some of Fields' sacks were on him, vs. readily jumping at the opportunity to criticize him for not feeling the pressure on those sacks.  You have never done the latter for Fields, despite him leading the league in Sack Rate in each of the last two seasons.  You were quick to do so for Bryce's very first preseason game.  That's pretty telling.

Yes Bryce "not flashing" is up for dispute.  Plenty of people would argue that poise in the pocket and showing the ability to quickly go through progressions are areas you can "flash" in for your NFL debut.  Arguably those are the hardest traits for rookies to acquire in their transition to the NFL.  You seem to be one of those "Box Score" analysts who extracts all of his talking points straight from the Box Score, which meshes with the other thread where you extracted your talking points straight from article headlines rather than diving into the substance of the articles.

Your bar for objectivity seems to be that you don't egregiously lie about players.  That's a pretty silly bar.  You can be "not wrong" about your analyses but be heavily biased in your framing of certain players' performances.  Highlighting the positives of players you like and dismissing/ignoring the negatives, while highlighting the negatives of players you dislike and ignoring/dismissing the positives.  I don't even think you dislike Bryce, I think you're doing that petty thing that lots of people do where you spite-post because you're annoyed at how many people were/are hyping him up when you wanted someone else.

I have nothing against Bryce at all. My question around him was healthy related based on his weight. I also never cared about the height. Anybody we throw out there I’m looking for positives.

As far as being spiteful because I preferred we drafted Stroud, I think of Stroud had the same line I’d say the same thing. It wasn’t what I was hoping for. 
 

My disappointment stems from us having a beyond experienced staff, upgrades all over on offense from last season, upgrade at QB with a prospect whose only flaw for most folks was his size, and we went out and had a dud. It’s as pure as that. It was a dud performance. 
 

Now, we can try to highlight the nicer parts of a turd but I mean, at the end of the day, we got like two first downs, converted no third downs, gained minimal yards and left the field every drive with zero points. 
 

It’s hard for me to feel great about that. Was it all his fault? Absolutely not. And maybe we just have different definitions of flashing. Flashing, to me, would be making a throw into a tight window that gets us a first down or a 15+ yard throw. Maybe flashing for you is looking off defenders early in his career. 
 

But that’s something I EXPECT from Bryce. His mental score, his leadership and his history told me these are things he would be doing already. He did these things at Alabama, too. 
 

I don’t know. I guess my bar for whoever we ended up drafting because of all the pieces around them was going to be different and I got very excited before the start of the game and wanted something to cheer for. And I know it’s just preseason but I haven’t been this excited for a season since 2016 when I thought we’d be on a revenge tour. 

[MasterAwesome]

7 minutes ago, Varking said:

As far as being spiteful because I preferred we drafted Stroud, I think of Stroud had the same line I’d say the same thing. It wasn’t what I was hoping for. 

Respectfully, I wholeheartedly disagree.  Based off everything I've seen from you over the last couple years, I think if we're looking at an alternate reality where we took Stroud #1 overall and he had the exact performance as Young on Saturday, I have little doubt that you'd be raising hell exclusively about the o-line.  Similarly, if this was Fields' rookie preseason debut, I think you'd be up in arms about the terrible protection and how they're failing their brand new 1st round QB if that's the kind of o-line they're putting around him.

It'd be like after Fields' 3-3 129 yards 2 TD performance, if I just chose to emphasize how his screen pass to DJ was ugly, he had like 3 total air yards on his passes, and hey maybe his coaches still don't trust his arm if they're basically only giving him screen/swing passes.  Would you read that assessment of Fields' performance and be like "Well, none of that is technically wrong.  That's a pretty fair and objective take" or would you think "hmmm this guy sounds like a bit of a hater"?  And then I talked about how tons of people are saying his performance was Fool's Gold and unimpressive and linked a few articles/videos saying just that.  Those are the kind of vibes you're giving off.

[Varking]

30 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Respectfully, I wholeheartedly disagree.  Based off everything I've seen from you over the last couple years, I think if we're looking at an alternate reality where we took Stroud #1 overall and he had the exact performance as Young on Saturday, I have little doubt that you'd be raising hell exclusively about the o-line.  Similarly, if this was Fields' rookie preseason debut, I think you'd be up in arms about the terrible protection and how they're failing their brand new 1st round QB if that's the kind of o-line they're putting around him.

It'd be like after Fields' 3-3 129 yards 2 TD performance, if I just chose to emphasize how his screen pass to DJ was ugly, he had like 3 total air yards on his passes, and hey maybe his coaches still don't trust his arm if they're basically only giving him screen/swing passes.  Would you read that assessment of Fields' performance and be like "Well, none of that is technically wrong.  That's a pretty fair and objective take" or would you think "hmmm this guy sounds like a bit of a hater"?  And then I talked about how tons of people are saying his performance was Fool's Gold and unimpressive and linked a few articles/videos saying just that.  Those are the kind of vibes you're giving off.

Yet I haven’t bragged once anywhere about Fields this preseason because it was a nothing performance. I’ve only pointed out the Bears line still lets people through easily. There was nothing to take away from the Bears game about Fields. Only positives from DJ and from Herbert. Fields needs to be on the field for more drives for me to get excited about this season for him. 

[NAS]

 

[Davidson Deac II]

The main improvement I want to see next week is more throws across the middle/down the field.  Seemed like virtually every pass we tried to throw was a side out or 5 yard dump off, even when we had time.  

[therealmjl]

4 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

The main improvement I want to see next week is more throws across the middle/down the field.  Seemed like virtually every pass we tried to throw was a side out or 5 yard dump off, even when we had time.  

So the ball to the middle of the field to Thielen on his 3rd read doesn’t count?

or the shot downfield on 3rd down to Chark?

I mean both of those accounted for 33% of his sample size 

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, therealmjl said:

So the ball to the middle of the field to Thielen on his 3rd read doesn’t count?

or the shot downfield on 3rd down to Chark?

I mean both of those accounted for 33% of his sample size 

I assumed he meant the whole offense not just Young.  Corral didn't really throw it deep very often.  

[MasterAwesome]

2 hours ago, Varking said:

Yet I haven’t bragged once anywhere about Fields this preseason because it was a nothing performance. I’ve only pointed out the Bears line still lets people through easily. There was nothing to take away from the Bears game about Fields. Only positives from DJ and from Herbert. Fields needs to be on the field for more drives for me to get excited about this season for him. 

I never suggested you bragged about Fields' preseason game.  I was simply asking if you think my theoretical characterization of his performance was fair and objective or if you think it comes across as a hater take.  If Bryce can be criticized for one individual sack that you say he didn't feel the pressure on, then I don't see why you couldn't criticize Fields for his one pretty errant screen pass that was behind DJ who had to adjust.  For the record I think both are very nitpicky, but I'm looking for consistency on your takes.

On a side note: are you talking about the Herbert TD where the Bears' line let people through easily?  Because that was clearly a designed screen pass, so letting people through to get to the second level is kind of the design of the playcall lol.  I mean maybe they disengaged a tad bit too quickly (or maybe Herbert slipped out a bit late, it's hard to say), but that TD was 90% credited to blocking.  I think you are so quick to criticize the Bears' o-line that you don't recognize that they were ironically the star of the preseason game IMO.  DJ basically caught the screen pass and ran a straight line for 62 yards to the end zone because of the superb blocking of the o-line on that play.  Herbert went untouched for almost 50 yards before doing a good job powering through contact within the 5-yard line to secure the TD.

Edited August 14, 2023 by MasterAwesome

[TheCasillas]

18 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

The main improvement I want to see next week is more throws across the middle/down the field.  Seemed like virtually every pass we tried to throw was a side out or 5 yard dump off, even when we had time.  

there wasnt a play across the middle. QB school even goes over that. The Jets were running heavy zones inside the hashes. 

[Varking]

40 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I never suggested you bragged about Fields' preseason game.  I was simply asking if you think my theoretical characterization of his performance was fair and objective or if you think it comes across as a hater take.  If Bryce can be criticized for one individual sack that you say he didn't feel the pressure on, then I don't see why you couldn't criticize Fields for his one pretty errant screen pass that was behind DJ who had to adjust.  For the record I think both are very nitpicky, but I'm looking for consistency on your takes.

On a side note: are you talking about the Herbert TD where the Bears' line let people through easily?  Because that was clearly a designed screen pass, so letting people through to get to the second level is kind of the design of the playcall lol.  I mean maybe they disengaged a tad bit too quickly (or maybe Herbert slipped out a bit late, it's hard to say), but that TD was 90% credited to blocking.  I think you are so quick to criticize the Bears' o-line that you don't recognize that they were ironically the star of the preseason game IMO.  DJ basically caught the screen pass and ran a straight line for 62 yards to the end zone because of the superb blocking of the o-line on that play.  Herbert went untouched for almost 50 yards before doing a good job powering through contact within the 5-yard line to secure the TD.

You can absolutely critique Fields for an inaccurate screen pass that caused DJ to have to turn for the ball rather than catch it where he is supposed to.
 

The pass to Herbert for the TD had bad blocking. There’s linemen blocking nobody for some of that. If you let a guy go past you it should be to go find a body in the second level to block. I understand you let people by on certain plays to bait them but when you have to have your QB sprint left to make that throw or get clobbered I don’t think all the assignments were nailed on that one. Then look at the downfield blocking and you have EQS running along with his hand on the back of the defenders running alongside them, never blocking them. 
 

Props to their oline who ran their man out of bounds on the play, that was solid. But when the rest of the Bears line shows me they are consistently good I’m going to focus on them.