Any contractors/builders out there?

[OnlyPantherFaninMaine]

Getting ready to finish my basement (Maine) - approximately 1,600-1,700 square feet. Funds are tight so will be doing it incrementally and obviously need to start with framing around the concrete as well as some interior wall creation and framing around the plumbing in the ceiling. 
 
Have a contractor I know through a mutual relationship - have known him for a couple years but it’s not like we are super close. He came by the other week to take a look and offered to do the framing for me. I saw the invoice from a local lumber company today - $2000 for lumber. I was quoted at $6000 all in for the materials + labor of strictly the framing. Is that common for the labor to be 2X the materials? He works alone and said it would only take him a couple days. No insulation, electric, or drywall included. 
 

Does this price feel reasonable to folks? Feels a bit high to me but I know people can essentially name their prices in our current environment. I was hoping it would be more like $4.5K-$5K. 

[LinvilleGorge]

My Dad is a contractor and I've helped him out quite a bit in the past.Lumber went sky high during COVID. I can't comment on the pricing without knowing the specific plans but I can make a guess. Are you talking just framing it in and keeping it as one open finished space or are you finishing it out with multiple rooms?

If he's planning to finish it in two days working alone I'm definitely assuming one open finished space. Let's say he's busting ass and working legit 10 hour days. That's 20 hours of labor with no help to pay. That means he's paying himself $200 an hour and that's only if he's actually going to put in 20 legit working hours over two days. That's absolutely absurd for labor.

Hell, buy me a plane ticket and I'll fly up there and do it for "only" $100 an hour.

I'm sensing lots of red flags here but give me some more details about what you're looking to do with this space here. My initial guess is that this framing price is sky ass high, both on the material side and the labor side. This feels more like the type of price I would've expected for finished out walls for a basement of this size meaning framing, sheetrock, and mud. 

[OnlyPantherFaninMaine]

23 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

My Dad is a contractor and I've helped him out quite a bit in the past.Lumber went sky high during COVID. I can't comment on the pricing without knowing the specific plans but I can make a guess. Are you talking just framing it in and keeping it as one open finished space or are you finishing it out with multiple rooms?

If he's planning to finish it in two days working alone I'm definitely assuming one open finished space. Let's say he's busting ass and working legit 10 hour days. That's 20 hours of labor with no help to pay. That means he's paying himself $200 an hour and that's only if he's actually going to put in 20 legit working hours over two days. That's absolutely absurd for labor.

Hell, buy me a plane ticket and I'll fly up there and do it for "only" $100 an hour.

I'm sensing lots of red flags here but give me some more details about what you're looking to do with this space here. My initial guess is that this framing price is sky ass high, both on the material side and the labor side. This feels more like the type of price I would've expected for finished out walls for a basement of this size meaning framing, sheetrock, and mud. 

If it helps at all… I have attached the invoice I was provided for the job straight from a local labor company. The contractor made it sound like this was lumber “at his cost” and not what I would be quoted if I walked in and requested the exact same materials. 
 

It’s primarily a large finished space, but there is a large L shaped interior wall he would be framing so we can leave part of the basement unfinished for storage. He’d be framing out a half bathroom down there, approximately 8x6 in addition to a large closet. He will have to box in some plumbing in the ceiling but otherwise it’s just framing around the concrete. 

[OnlyPantherFaninMaine]

Update: the actual finished/framed space is closer to 1,050 sq. ft. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by OnlyPantherFaninMaine

[LinvilleGorge]

The material prices seem pretty standard retail.

I have no idea why he thinks he needs all that wood for barely over 1000 square feet or what he's planning to use the subflooring for.

Not sure what you're planning on using this space for, but are you hellbent on drywall? Just saying because if you're just wanting a mancave you might be able to do this a helluva lot cheaper and still make a nice spot.

[OnlyPantherFaninMaine]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The material prices seem pretty standard retail.

I have no idea why he thinks he needs all that wood for barely over 1000 square feet or what he's planning to use the subflooring for.

Not sure what you're planning on using this space for, but are you hellbent on drywall? Just saying because if you're just wanting a mancave you might be able to do this a helluva lot cheaper and still make a nice spot.

Man cave in part, but also will eventually be a play space for kids and adults alike in addition to some home-office space. What are my options other than drywall?

I watched him measure things out that day and he proceeded to have the lumber order drafted up. He mentioned that materials not used I could be reimbursed for when returned to the lumber store. New home-owner here so appreciate you talking through this with me. He definitely implied having him order the lumber would save me some cash but now I am annoyed that his labor costs are 2X the lumber cost. 

[LinvilleGorge]

Here's my finished basement before I hid the wires.

Sealed and painted the cinderblock walls. Just stained the concrete floors. Shiplap utility closet behind the TV. Drop tile ceiling for ease and for easy access to wiring/plumbing. Put in stained baseboards and trim to give it a more finished look. There's a framed and drywalled utility closet to the right of this picture that runs to the stairs.

Terrible pic of that:

Behind this picture is a kitchenette area to the right with a cabinet, sink, microwave, and refrigerator, then a straight wall all the way across that's framed and drywalled. Laundry room is to the left. 3/4 bath in the middle. 14x16 bedroom to the right that I currently left unfinished for storage but it would be an easy finish if we decided to sell to make it 4 bedrooms or what'll probably happen is that the kiddo will likely eventually want it as hers in an attempt to commandeer my mancave for herself.

So basically the space is a combination of painted cinderblock, shiplap, and drywall walls with a stained concrete floor, stained wood trim, and drop tile ceiling. All in it's about 1600 square feet.

Depending on what you have to work with you can just get creative with how to finish our as much of what you already have there to keep costs down and still end up with a nice looking very functional space without truly finishing everything out. I can always go back and drywall over the remaining cinderblock if I want it's just nowhere on my to-do list and I doubt it ever makes an appearance. To give full credit, most of this was done by the prior owners but they pretty much did roughly what I would've done. I just finished out the kitchenette, built the TV area, and finished out the shower in the bath. My philosophy when finishing out a basement for additional space is to work as much as you possibly can with what's already there.

[toldozer]

I think I paid about 12k to have my basement recroom demoed, drywalled (walls and ceiling) flooring put in and one wall framed out. Drywall and brick painted. Not helpful probably,  just wanted to post pics lol.  Please please please make sure you don't have any moisture issues at all before you start framing and drwalling poo. Here's my before and after. I got a bigger TV too, it was too small

[LinvilleGorge]

10 hours ago, toldozer said:

I think I paid about 12k to have my basement recroom demoed, drywalled (walls and ceiling) flooring put in and one wall framed out. Drywall and brick painted. Not helpful probably,  just wanted to post pics lol.  Please please please make sure you don't have any moisture issues at all before you start framing and drwalling poo. Here's my before and after. I got a bigger TV too, it was too small

Nah, it's helpful. I'd expect it to run considerably more than that in the post-COVID inflationary clown world, but it just goes to highlight that $6k for simply framing it in is ludicrous.

[toldozer]

39 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Nah, it's helpful. I'd expect it to run considerably more than that in the post-COVID inflationary clown world, but it just goes to highlight that $6k for simply framing it in is ludicrous.

Well it was also part of a 6 figure reno so I'm sure I got a discount

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, toldozer said:

Well it was also part of a 6 figure reno so I'm sure I got a discount

I'm sure that helped you out some but probably not as much as you might think. Most contractors are getting somewhere around 30-35% profit margin so it's not like there's a huge amount of wiggle room to offer fat discounts. Doing it all at once as part of a bigger project gets you the convenience discount of already having the equipment and manpower onsite. It might've saved you at most 10% over doing it as a standalone project.

[thefuzz]

He doesn't want the job.

Also, don't use "buddies" for things like this.

Go to a local job site where there is a lot of framing going on, observe, then make a job offer based on hourly.  You buy the materials, they provide the labor.

Or, you do it.  It's not as hard as you are likely thinking it is.

[LinvilleGorge]

I can't imagine he doesn't want to job. It should be pretty easy, straight forward work. It's easy enough to tell somebody you're booked out for the next three months if you don't want the job or if you're a one man crew just tell them thanks but no thanks that it's more work than you want to take on by yourself. You're not going to go through the effort of writing up a detailed quote if you don't want the job. That takes considerable time and time is money in this game.

At the end of the day, I don't know the local market. Could be that everyone is booked up and you can pretty much name your price and tell people to take it or leave it because there's plenty of work available. Honestly, it's largely still like that right now in WNC. If someone tells you they can get started right away you don't want them. There's plenty of work for people who are in demand.

[Anybodyhome]

20 hours ago, OnlyPantherFaninMaine said:

start with framing around the concrete as well as some interior wall creation and framing around the plumbing in the ceiling.

Why not leave the cinder block perimeter walls, just seal and paint them?

Interior walls and soffits to hide duct work, plumbing etc., I get.

I think at the most, I would estimate about $3-3.5k total for what you're having done.