Chris Fowler's Notes from Panthers Training Camp

[SaltAndPepper]

Fowler's notes from Carolina Panthers camp (ESPN + so I just copy / pasted it)

Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina
Date visited: Aug. 4
 

After taking one of multiple coverage sacks Friday, Bryce Young started jogging downfield before chucking the ball into the ground in disgust, a rare glimpse of raw emotion from a steely player. But this was a small blemish on an otherwise strong day for Young, who completed passes into tight coverage downfield and did not commit a turnover. Young's arm strength is adequate, and his savvy fools even the Panthers' best defensive players.

"He caught me today, actually," pass-rusher Brian Burns told me. "I was dropping in the hook ... he kind of looked me off and like, I guess gave a little pump fake, so I bit on the cheese and he hit me over top for a big one. So I'm going to get him back. But it is good to have that on the other side. I think he's going to be good for us."

A few themes have emerged in Young's evaluation:

• ▪
  He has already advanced in the art of the line-of-scrimmage check -- Young shows full command of the offense pre-snap. At one point in the spring, he checked into a play that the Panthers hadn't run yet.
• ▪
  The Panthers aren't concerned about interceptions in training camp. Young has thrown several, but coaches have encouraged him to try new stuff, with one I spoke to comparing the process to Chris Rock testing out new material in small clubs to rehearse for the big Netflix special.
• ▪
  Yes, there's concern here about his size. That's natural. Young is listed at 5-foot-10, 204 pounds, and the Panthers knew the risks when they drafted him. But they are confident in how he protects himself, and the staff has encouraged him to throw the ball away when the play isn't there.
• ▪
  Young has a quick release and adequate arm strength -- not a huge arm, but plenty good. But the quickness of the release is most impressive.
• ▪
  Young's relationship with backup Andy Dalton has blossomed. The two have become close, and Dalton is constantly talking things out with him. Carolina has surrounded Young with QB whisperers. Three of his coaches -- Reich, senior assistant Jim Caldwell and quarterbacks coach Josh McCown -- carry cachet in working with quarterbacks.

 

The Panthers set their sights on Young months before the draft, and when they traded with Chicago to secure the No. 1 pick, they challenged themselves to find a reason not to take him. They didn't find one (even though Anthony Richardson thoroughly impressed in the process). Months later, the Panthers have zero regrets. There's definitely a feeling they got the right guy, because of his makeup, character and ability to process information.
 

Best of the rest:

• ▪
  On Adam Thielen's way out of Minnesota, questions persisted about whether he could still separate. The Panthers have been pleased with his top-end speed, tracking him at 20-plus miles per hour on the GPS device. Thielen had a knee injury late last season that could have affected his burst. Now fully healthy, the Panthers expect him to play a variety of roles, from working in the slot to getting loose on the outside.
• ▪
  The Justin Houston signing was timely. Defensive coordinator Ejiro Evero said last week "it's a fact" that someone opposite Burns needs to solidify the starting role. With Marquis Haynes Sr. injured, Carolina pushed to make a move but wasn't comfortable paying the $10.5 million that Yannick Ngakoue got from Chicago.
• ▪
  Burns told me he's not concerned with his contract but would love to stay in Carolina long term. He reported to camp because he wanted to show leadership. Sides are not close on a new deal. With Nick Bosa expected to put up a massive number on an extension with San Francisco, that could have a trickle-down effect on Burns, the proverbial next man up. Burns doesn't seem hesitant to play out the last year of his rookie contract at $16 million guaranteed. He's eyeing a massive season regardless. "I'm far from my ceiling," Burns said. He thinks a more improved Carolina team will result in more opportunities for pass-rushers and others. "We've been pretty bad for the last couple of years," he said. "I've been through the downs a lot. It's time to start winning. It's at that point."
• ▪
  DJ Chark Jr. could end up being a steal in free agency after signing for $5 million guaranteed on a one-year deal. Chark finally looks healthy and is showing explosiveness. He caught a slick touchdown from Young by the sideline, and his deep-ball prowess has been on display.
• ▪
  Consider safety Jeremy Chinn a "big nickel" player -- he can play cornerback in the nickel package or slide to linebacker in a dime package. The Panthers believe he can stuff the stat sheet in this new role. "This guy is a weapon," Evero said.
   

Key fantasy note: Running back Miles Sanders has a relatively healthy fantasy outlook. The loose expectation is he'll hover around 15 carries per game, on average, along with 3-5 catches per game. Some running backs can run parts of the wide receiver route tree, some can't -- Sanders can. Expect Carolina to utilize his hands more than Philadelphia did. And Young isn't afraid to check it down if there's not a play downfield, as he showed during Friday's practice. So, Sanders won't lead the league in touches -- Carolina's offense isn't built like that -- but Carolina believes he's capable of handling three-down-back duties.

[stratocatter]

Interesting that no one replied to this. Or am I just the only idiot? Nah, that can’t be true here. I have company. 
Some contradictory things in there, though I suppose the chronology of the entries could explain that.

Talking up offensive guys like Thielen’s 20mph and Chark’s skills  after leading off with painting a darker picture with the “multiple coverage sacks” is mostly where that comes from but some other things. 

There are some ominous overtones in Burns’ comments about his contract, and winning. I get wanting to be on a winning team. I get wanting to be paid like other guys who do what you do. At the same time those ‘keeping up with the Jones’ motivated contract demands are counter to wanting to win, at a point. Not saying he is there but it sounds like he knows where some leverage is and is willing to use it. 

 

[WarPanthers89]

Yeah Burns is not giving any discount, and he’s tired of losing. We need to pay the man and build around him. We have a lot of young talent coming up for contract renewals, and need to lock up the ones who are worth it to pay while Young is locked up. Burns starts the wave of contracts on defense, and is one we know is worth it. Give him his biggest pay early in the contract while still on Young’s rookie deal. You refused the 2 first rounds picks for a reason….this the reason. Pay the man, make him happy, and let’s move on. 
 

 

Great reading though, I am happy about the rest

[Tbe]

I got the same impression from his winning comments.

Sounds like he’s happy to see how the season goes and decide on his future later.

If things turn around, he stays. If not, he’s gone.

[TheMaulClaw]

I like Burns but he should be a Ram right now.

[LinvilleGorge]

4 hours ago, Tbe said:

I got the same impression from his winning comments.

Sounds like he’s happy to see how the season goes and decide on his future later.

If things turn around, he stays. If not, he’s gone.

Nah, there's always the franchise tag option.

[trucpfan]

1 hour ago, TheMaulClaw said:

I like Burns but he should be a Ram right now.

Who do you replace him with this season? Because I'm pretty sure you don't know Rams didn't have a first round pick this season or next so those first Rd picks start in 2024 leaving us with a huge gap for this season. You know we're trying to win the South this season right. We believe we can make the playoffs this season or do you want to use this season as a redshirt season for the whole team lol I need to understand what you want to do at OLB with those future picks you speak of to get rid of our best pass rusher who hasn't even hit his prime yet. You'd probably would have traded Julius Peppers early in his career if they dangled two first rounds at you like picks mean more then actual players, just lost.

[ncstatekwi]

On 8/7/2023 at 10:22 AM, SaltAndPepper said:

Fowler's notes from Carolina Panthers camp (ESPN + so I just copy / pasted it)

Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina
Date visited: Aug. 4
 

After taking one of multiple coverage sacks Friday, Bryce Young started jogging downfield before chucking the ball into the ground in disgust, a rare glimpse of raw emotion from a steely player. But this was a small blemish on an otherwise strong day for Young, who completed passes into tight coverage downfield and did not commit a turnover. Young's arm strength is adequate, and his savvy fools even the Panthers' best defensive players.

"He caught me today, actually," pass-rusher Brian Burns told me. "I was dropping in the hook ... he kind of looked me off and like, I guess gave a little pump fake, so I bit on the cheese and he hit me over top for a big one. So I'm going to get him back. But it is good to have that on the other side. I think he's going to be good for us."

A few themes have emerged in Young's evaluation:

• ▪
  He has already advanced in the art of the line-of-scrimmage check -- Young shows full command of the offense pre-snap. At one point in the spring, he checked into a play that the Panthers hadn't run yet.
• ▪
  The Panthers aren't concerned about interceptions in training camp. Young has thrown several, but coaches have encouraged him to try new stuff, with one I spoke to comparing the process to Chris Rock testing out new material in small clubs to rehearse for the big Netflix special.
• ▪
  Yes, there's concern here about his size. That's natural. Young is listed at 5-foot-10, 204 pounds, and the Panthers knew the risks when they drafted him. But they are confident in how he protects himself, and the staff has encouraged him to throw the ball away when the play isn't there.
• ▪
  Young has a quick release and adequate arm strength -- not a huge arm, but plenty good. But the quickness of the release is most impressive.
• ▪
  Young's relationship with backup Andy Dalton has blossomed. The two have become close, and Dalton is constantly talking things out with him. Carolina has surrounded Young with QB whisperers. Three of his coaches -- Reich, senior assistant Jim Caldwell and quarterbacks coach Josh McCown -- carry cachet in working with quarterbacks.

 

The Panthers set their sights on Young months before the draft, and when they traded with Chicago to secure the No. 1 pick, they challenged themselves to find a reason not to take him. They didn't find one (even though Anthony Richardson thoroughly impressed in the process). Months later, the Panthers have zero regrets. There's definitely a feeling they got the right guy, because of his makeup, character and ability to process information.
 

Best of the rest:

• ▪
  On Adam Thielen's way out of Minnesota, questions persisted about whether he could still separate. The Panthers have been pleased with his top-end speed, tracking him at 20-plus miles per hour on the GPS device. Thielen had a knee injury late last season that could have affected his burst. Now fully healthy, the Panthers expect him to play a variety of roles, from working in the slot to getting loose on the outside.
• ▪
  The Justin Houston signing was timely. Defensive coordinator Ejiro Evero said last week "it's a fact" that someone opposite Burns needs to solidify the starting role. With Marquis Haynes Sr. injured, Carolina pushed to make a move but wasn't comfortable paying the $10.5 million that Yannick Ngakoue got from Chicago.
• ▪
  Burns told me he's not concerned with his contract but would love to stay in Carolina long term. He reported to camp because he wanted to show leadership. Sides are not close on a new deal. With Nick Bosa expected to put up a massive number on an extension with San Francisco, that could have a trickle-down effect on Burns, the proverbial next man up. Burns doesn't seem hesitant to play out the last year of his rookie contract at $16 million guaranteed. He's eyeing a massive season regardless. "I'm far from my ceiling," Burns said. He thinks a more improved Carolina team will result in more opportunities for pass-rushers and others. "We've been pretty bad for the last couple of years," he said. "I've been through the downs a lot. It's time to start winning. It's at that point."
• ▪
  DJ Chark Jr. could end up being a steal in free agency after signing for $5 million guaranteed on a one-year deal. Chark finally looks healthy and is showing explosiveness. He caught a slick touchdown from Young by the sideline, and his deep-ball prowess has been on display.
• ▪
  Consider safety Jeremy Chinn a "big nickel" player -- he can play cornerback in the nickel package or slide to linebacker in a dime package. The Panthers believe he can stuff the stat sheet in this new role. "This guy is a weapon," Evero said.
   

 

Key fantasy note: Running back Miles Sanders has a relatively healthy fantasy outlook. The loose expectation is he'll hover around 15 carries per game, on average, along with 3-5 catches per game. Some running backs can run parts of the wide receiver route tree, some can't -- Sanders can. Expect Carolina to utilize his hands more than Philadelphia did. And Young isn't afraid to check it down if there's not a play downfield, as he showed during Friday's practice. So, Sanders won't lead the league in touches -- Carolina's offense isn't built like that -- but Carolina believes he's capable of handling three-down-back duties.

[TheMaulClaw]

19 hours ago, trucpfan said:

Who do you replace him with this season? Because I'm pretty sure you don't know Rams didn't have a first round pick this season or next so those first Rd picks start in 2024 leaving us with a huge gap for this season. You know we're trying to win the South this season right. We believe we can make the playoffs this season or do you want to use this season as a redshirt season for the whole team lol I need to understand what you want to do at OLB with those future picks you speak of to get rid of our best pass rusher who hasn't even hit his prime yet. You'd probably would have traded Julius Peppers early in his career if they dangled two first rounds at you like picks mean more then actual players, just lost.

Depends on your philosophy. We don't have 1st round picks either and we need to build a team for Bryce over the next 2 years to maximize his rookie deal.  We also have to pay Brown.  While I like Burns I don't think he is elite yet. I think his production can be replaced for less than what he is asking for.

Burns is no Peppers and we should have traded Peppers after it was clear we weren't going to get him signed, because we ended up losing him for nothing because we kept him on perpetual franchise tags.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by TheMaulClaw

[trucpfan]

6 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Depends on your philosophy. We don't have 1st round picks either and we need to build a team for Bryce over the next 2 years to maximize his rookie deal.  We also have to pay Brown.  While I like Burns I don't think he is elite yet. I think his production can be released for less than what he is asking for.

Burns is no Peppers and we should have traded Peppers after it was clear we weren't going to get him signed, because we ended up losing him for nothing because we kept him on perpetual franchise tags.

 

 

That trade wouldn't have impacted us the next two years bc they'd be 2024 and 2025 first round picks. I know we could of traded those picks and moved into the first or second this coming draft but my number one question was who do we get to replicate Burns production. Do you feel like we can draft a player in the second round to replicate what Burns does. Or it doesn't matter to you as long as we get first round picks lol. All teams have to pay their stars it's normal why do we cry and whine over paying players who others regard top players at their respective position. There's enough money for everyone and we also need elite players at key positions depending on rookies because you want to save money has never been a winning strategy. Do we want to win a chip in next few years or save money?

[CamWhoaaCam]

21 hours ago, TheMaulClaw said:

I like Burns but he should be a Ram right now.

Yeah that makes sense!

 

Now we have no pass rush!

[CamWhoaaCam]

36 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Depends on your philosophy. We don't have 1st round picks either and we need to build a team for Bryce over the next 2 years to maximize his rookie deal.  We also have to pay Brown.  While I like Burns I don't think he is elite yet. I think his production can be replaced for less than what he is asking for.

Burns is no Peppers and we should have traded Peppers after it was clear we weren't going to get him signed, because we ended up losing him for nothing because we kept him on perpetual franchise tags.

 

 

Wait you don't want to pay Burns because we have to also pay Brown?

 

Why not keep both young talents we can afford both.smh

 

Whatever happened to keeping your homegrown talent...

[TheMaulClaw]

3 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Wait you don't want to pay Burns because we have to also pay Brown?

 

Why not keep both young talents we can afford both.smh

 

Whatever happened to keeping your homegrown talent...

Reality is Haason Reddick is a better player then Burns. He is the one that should have been retained.

[TheMaulClaw]

6 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Yeah that makes sense!

 

Now we have no pass rush!

Burns always disappears for long stretches and is a liability against the run. As I just mention to Camwhoaacam Haason Reddick was a better player and could have been retained for far less.