The Panther's front office doesn't think winning year after year is important.

[rayzor]

if you don't want to pay for early first round talent...win. thats the way to get the cheapest first round talent. or you could keep trading out of it but then that has nothing to do with record.

should they spend more wisely? yes. but their record is going to have nothing to do with it.

all you need to know about their lack of dedication to winning is that goal of winning 3 out of every 4 games. the goal isn't to be the best, just better than average. the bar is set low but when has this been a secret?

saying that they want to win this year and not next or some plan to have a winning record one year but not the next? sorry...not buying that at all. it's got everything to do with culture and very little to do with strategy.

[pstall]

Perhaps this would have been a better question.

Which is more important to the Front Office? Winning games or making a profit?

4 hours sleep doesn't translate to coherent posts.

[rayzor]

you want a profit? increase sales. ticket sales are pretty much fixed into place. they know they are going to have games sold out for the most part. concession sales and advertising revenue? that's going to come from having more people at the games for longer periods of time. how do you do that? win.

key to making a profit in the NFL, especially for smaller market/newer franchises? win.

fox isn't committed to winning to the degree that i think he should but i don't think that it is some organization wide philosophy to hold back on winning. every business wants two things: to be the best and to make a profit. usually those two goes hand in hand.

sorry, just not buying any of this.

[pstall]

you want a profit? increase sales. ticket sales are pretty much fixed into place. they know they are going to have games sold out for the most part. concession sales and advertising revenue? that's going to come from having more people at the games for longer periods of time. how do you do that? win.

key to making a profit in the NFL, especially for smaller market/newer franchises? win.

fox isn't committed to winning to the degree that i think he should but i don't think that it is some organization wide philosophy to hold back on winning. every business wants two things: to be the best and to make a profit. usually those two goes hand in hand.

sorry, just not buying any of this.

I tend to agree. I think you are taking the op and running to the conspiracy bank.

All I'm saying is per my observation, the Panthers give ME the IMPRESSION that winning EVERY year isn't that important.

That's all I'm saying. Kevin Greene mentioned the spending wisely.

Somebody the other day mentioned how the Cardinals despite being a few plays from being the Super Bowl winner still made some pretty big changes.

The Panthers did not. Add to that the contracts of Jake/Pep.

Like they teach when you deal with drug addicts, don't believe what they say, believe what they do.

If the Panthers have convinced you that they are committed to winning every year than maybe THAT'S the conspiracy we need to look at.

[Fiz]

Whenever someone says oversimplify, what they mean to say is crap why didn't I say that.

that's not what i mean at all.

Yes on spending a certain amount. But the Panthers hardly have their backs against the wall to have a winning record year in and year out. The PSL's leverage has gone the other way now. The Panther's get theirs whether they are winning or losing. Obviously winning helps but some schlub will plunk down some hard earned money to get PSL's off some fan who just realized what I said.

so what are you saying, that the panthers don't care about winning because of PSLs, or that they only care every other year....for reasons that are apparently beyond the pale.

Winning record, low draft spot = cheap dollar slot. Losing equals potential higher money slot. No worries on expensive slot next year.

this is really pretty dumb and I can't believe people still buy this.

Outside of the top five, which a Fox coached team has never picked in, the picks are quite reasonable in price and the OMG ZE DRAFT PICKS rhetoric is really uncalled for. furthermore, salaries, signing bonuses, and salary cap have all increased at the same rate as revenue streams and inflation. and it's not like the raiders or lions are insolvent because they're all picking in the top five annually.

due to revenue sharing every owner makes a profit before the season starts anyway.

The team from the top down is built to just keep the interest up enough to remain on the radar. No awful slippage keeps the PSL teet nice and supple.

this is dumb as poo

[Fiz]

All I'm saying is per my observation, the Panthers give ME the IMPRESSION that winning EVERY year isn't that important.

you haven't given any justification for this.

were they trying to win in 2006 when they brought in the two most sought after free agents at their positions? you never addressed that.

were they trying to lose in 2009 when they retained Jordan Gross and brought back a team that had won 12 games the year before?

Somebody the other day mentioned how the Cardinals despite being a few plays from being the Super Bowl winner still made some pretty big changes.

besides resigning their own players, what was the big move?

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and-events/transactions.html

The Panthers did not.

locking up what would be the best free agent available (Gross) and overpaying to do it = tanking the next year and trying to save money

and this whole jake thing is unrelated. he was under contract anyway. you could lose with him without giving him an extension.

[pstall]

that's not what i mean at all.

so what are you saying, that the panthers don't care about winning because of PSLs, or that they only care every other year....for reasons that are apparently beyond the pale.

this is really pretty dumb and I can't believe people still buy this.

Outside of the top five, which a Fox coached team has never picked in, the picks are quite reasonable in price and the OMG ZE DRAFT PICKS rhetoric is really uncalled for. furthermore, salaries, signing bonuses, and salary cap have all increased at the same rate as revenue streams and inflation. and it's not like the raiders or lions are insolvent because they're all picking in the top five annually.

this is dumb as sh*t

kinda proves the comment about staying on the radar. But if that revenue goes away(i doubt it though) suddenly an new incentive and urgency kicks into ya know..win..umm.....each year

[Sandy Claws]

► each team in a division plays all the teams from a particular division in your own conference once on a 4 year rotating cycle (4 games)

►.

minor fix - 3 year rotation

[Fiz]

kinda proves the comment about staying on the radar. But if that revenue goes away(i doubt it though) suddenly an new incentive and urgency kicks into ya know..win..umm.....each year

this new tangent about the team not feeling as if it has to win every year because of constant psl sales is contingent on the veracity of your original hypothesis that they don't make offseason moves because they're not interested in consistently winning

a hypothesis that is very quickly broken apart, as evidenced by you failing to respond directly to a single example which would disprove it.

stop trying to apply the dumb econ 101 crap you learned during your University of Phoenix online MBA course to something where it doesn't apply.

[Fiz]

minor fix - 3 year rotation

well, every four years you'll have played every team in the nfl at least once, for the most party completely independent of influence from your record the preceding season.

[House]

Pstall, maybe you should take the advice I tried to give Prouddiddy in another thread. Just stick to saying "Fox sucks", or in your case "The FO sucks".

Coming up with off the wall half-retarded threads about this team and why they are having problems is getting out of control. You are a really smart guy, I'm sure you know that Fiz is 100% right on this one. Just say "The FO sucks" and walk away.

[pstall]

this new tangent about the team not feeling as if it has to win every year because of constant psl sales is contingent on the veracity of your original hypothesis that they don't make offseason moves because they're not interested in consistently winning

a hypothesis that is very quickly broken apart, as evidenced by you failing to respond directly to a single example which would disprove it.

stop trying to apply the dumb econ 101 crap you learned during your University of Phoenix online MBA course to something where it doesn't apply.

Nice use of an intellectual qualifier. Typically used by someone who is lying to add some validity to their argument.

At least the Univ of Phoenix was funny. Not true, but funny.

You yourself oh disciple of Krugman said that teams make a profit before the season starts due to revenue.

Because of that it can/does, lower the INCENTIVE to win year after year. Why worry about being super competitive when we can slightly sand bag or just not be that urgent to win every year.

But if that goes away, the false sense of security goes away with it.

Sorta like this. Lets say you, electro, myself and oh..mush are on a portfolio team. Mush carries us year after and we ALL get bonuses based on our "teams" goal. But during happy hour we kinda chuckle to ourselves knowing mush is our cash cow.

Mush has made enough and says screw this, Im opening a pub in Dublin. One one hand we try to stop mush because there are pubs on every corner, but mush is a fiesty chap and loves the pint so we let him go.

NOW, we are exposed as to who TRULY produces and makes it happen. No more hiding behind spreadsheets and conference calls. Put up or shut up.

We can agree to not so much disagree, but simply we look at the glass a bit differently. For me not half full or empty, but who made the glass and how much can it hold for me.

[pstall]

Pstall, maybe you should take the advice I tried to give Prouddiddy in another thread. Just stick to saying "Fox sucks", or in your case "The FO sucks".

Coming up with off the wall half-retarded threads about this team and why they are having problems is getting out of control. You are a really smart guy, I'm sure you know that Fiz is 100% right on this one. Just say "The FO sucks" and walk away.

Uh..no. And why are you not watching the Army/Navy game?? :coolgleamA:

[House]

Uh..no. And why are you not watching the Army/Navy game?? :coolgleamA:

I am a very unique individual in that I can watch tv and type on a computer.