Panthers QB Moore still kicking himself over conservative play call Sunday

[CRA]

So if 98% of the conservative play calling is Fox, then why did Henning call more passes in his last season here than he did the year before when the Panthers were winning, and why did Fox fire him after that particular season? Could it be that some of these assumptions about Fox are wrong, and that he actually lets his coordinators call the game the way they see fit until there is a decision to be made on 4th down? It certainly doesn't look like Fox is micro managing Ron Meeks like so many Panthers fans predicted, and if he was micro managing Henning in 06 like everybody claimed, then why did he completely abandon the run when he had 4th quarter leads in about 10 games that year? That goes against everything Fox believes in.

Once again though, I do believe it's time for a change at HC, but that doesn't mean that every single criticism of John Fox is warranted or that he doesn't know his football. If you're gonna criticize Fox on his offense, you should criticize him for hiring Davidson and sticking with Delhomme for a couple of games too long.

Why has Davidson abandoned the run so much this year opting to put more on Delhomme than he can handle despite the run working? and despite not needing to attack pointlessly in the air w/ a bad QB? That goes against everything also and yet is consistant with the pointless throwing in the previous year you mentioned.

also, you can't use Meeks as an example of Fox not being a micro manager...based on Fox's history there is little suggest Meeks is doing what he wants. There was a reason Meeks was brought here....he was brought here to run what Fox wanted and Meeks fit the bill. I don't have a problem w/ a Fox defense when he has the pieces to do it and an offense to compliment it. Not a bad thing overall.

[monstercat]

Have to disagree with MOST that I have read above.

How many coaching positions do you have to change, to not see the same sh*t, game after game, to not realize what the problem is??????????????????

Only one not changed.......FOX.

Argue the point all you want.

Fair enough. I still haven't heard an explanation as to why Henning was calling more passes and fewer runs while John Fox was, supposedly, micromanaging him during the 06 season though. That assumption has never made one bit of sense to me...especially when they had so many 4th quarter leads that year and Jake Delhomme was playing the entire season with a bad elbow. Why would a HC who believes in running the ball and playing good defense force his OC to make his injured QB throw more than he needed to?

[CatMan72]

But after reading this, how do you know when Fox/Davidson decided to run the ball or if/when the QB did? It sure sounds like the QB almost always has the option to run or throw on any given play in this offense. I'm not trying to defend Fox here, because I do believe it's time for a change, but it seems like fans are asuming a lot of things about his coaching staff that may or may not be true. Also, Fox has been burned royally when he has tried to go for it on 4th and short this year, so he has been aggressive at times and it just plain didn't work.

Fox is well known for his extremely conservative approach, and I think it's made the Panthers offense VERY predictable which is part of what's hurting us. Look at the offensive explosion that happened in Miami when Henning got there... we all blamed Henning for the offense, but Davidson came in and guess what: more of the same. The only constant in that equation has been Fox. I have a hard time believing that Jake is calling running plays most of the time when he's given the check with me option.

There's nothing wrong with conservative football, but Fox is conservative to a fault. You have to throw some wrinkles in there. Remember Sheldon Brown pointing out that when Smitty was in the slot the Panthers were going to throw to him? I'm guessing our offense has so many "tells" it's not even funny.

[AceMan]

Fair enough. I still haven't heard an explanation as to why Henning was calling more passes and fewer runs while John Fox was, supposedly, micromanaging him during the 06 season though. That assumption has never made one bit of sense to me...especially when they had so many 4th quarter leads that year and Jake Delhomme was playing the entire season with a bad elbow. Why would a HC who believes in running the ball and playing good defense force his OC to make his injured QB throw more than he needed to?

Wow...You can even look at this year for the same type of problem! Who knows...

[monstercat]

Why has Davidson abandoned the run so much this year opting to put more on Delhomme than he can handle despite the run working? and despite not needing to attack pointlessly in the air w/ a bad QB? That goes against everything also and yet is consistant with the pointless throwing in the previous year you mentioned.

also, you can't use Meeks as an example of Fox not being a micro manager...based on Fox's history there is little suggest Meeks is doing what he wants. There was a reason Meeks was brought here....he was brought here to run what Fox wanted and Meeks fit the bill. I don't have a problem w/ a Fox defense when he has the pieces to do it and an offense to compliment it. Not a bad thing overall.

Maybe Davidson just sucks as an OC, and Fox made a mistake when he hired him in the first place.

As far as Meeks goes, he took charge of this defense from the day he arrived, and pretty much every player on that side of the ball has stated that this is a different defense from what they were running before, so there is actually plenty of evidence that Meeks is running his defense the way he wants to run it.

[CRA]

Maybe Davidson just sucks as an OC, and Fox made a mistake when he hired him in the first place.

As far as Meeks goes, he took charge of this defense from the day he arrived, and pretty much every player on that side of the ball has stated that this is a different defense from what they were running before, so there is actually plenty of evidence that Meeks is running his defense the way he wants to run it.

Ok, then Henning sucked, Davidson sucks, and Trgo sucked. I don't think there is another coordinator with over 1 yr with Fox......

so does Fox suck at surrounding himself w/ a decent staff? is that part of being a good head coach?

Meeks is running a different scheme....no denying that. You can go about achieving the same thing in different ways. That is all Fox wants...he doesn't care how Meeks does it but Meeks was brought in to run a Fox defense. It is about philiosphy not exactly how Meeks goes about it.

[jramsey4]

Maybe Davidson just sucks as an OC, and Fox made a mistake when he hired him in the first place.

As far as Meeks goes, he took charge of this defense from the day he arrived, and pretty much every player on that side of the ball has stated that this is a different defense from what they were running before, so there is actually plenty of evidence that Meeks is running his defense the way he wants to run it.

Its really a catch 22 for Fox. Its either his fault we suck, Jake's, or Davidson's. If its Jakes, Fox basically assured JR he was our QB by him giving Jake that new deal so if he sucks its still Fox's fault. If its because the OC sucks well Fox hand picked him. I think its well deserved though as I do think our problems start and finish with Fox's QB/Passing problems.

[monstercat]

Why has Davidson abandoned the run so much this year opting to put more on Delhomme than he can handle despite the run working? and despite not needing to attack pointlessly in the air w/ a bad QB? That goes against everything also and yet is consistant with the pointless throwing in the previous year you mentioned.

also, you can't use Meeks as an example of Fox not being a micro manager...based on Fox's history there is little suggest Meeks is doing what he wants. There was a reason Meeks was brought here....he was brought here to run what Fox wanted and Meeks fit the bill. I don't have a problem w/ a Fox defense when he has the pieces to do it and an offense to compliment it. Not a bad thing overall.

Ok, then Henning sucked, Davidson sucks, and Trgo sucked. I don't think there is another coordinator with over 1 yr with Fox......

so does Fox suck at surrounding himself w/ a decent staff? is that part of being a good head coach?

Meeks is running a different scheme....no denying that. You can go about achieving the same thing in different ways. That is all Fox wants...he doesn't care how Meeks does it but Meeks was brought in to run a Fox defense. It is about philiosphy not exactly how Meeks goes about it.

Damn, I've already stated that it's time for Fox to go. I'm not even arguing that point at all. I'm just saying that there is really no evidence, and never has been any evidence, to back up the notion that Fox is micro managing his coordinators. IMO, he hired Henning and Davidson because they both believed in running the ball just like he did, and that's exactly how he expected them both to call the games. I also believe that he fired Henning because he wasn't being conservative enough and because he, inexplicably, kept calling play action passes without establishing the running game first. I never understood why he Henning did that.

And for the record, I probably defended Henning more than anybody on this board, so don't think for a second that I'm trying to throw him under the bus to make Fox look good.