Anybody else think we are putting to much on Bryce's plate?

[Mr. Scot]

12 hours ago, CRA said:

2022+2021+2020 outweigh 2019.  After a promising rookie season he disappointed as a pass catcher and the Eagles phased him out of that role.  That’s the Sanders story in Philly. 

and now you somehow quote someone praising his 2022 rushing ability as some type of argument that he is a good pass catching RB? Wut???! I’ve praised his rushing ability in this convo.  That’s all that first bit you shared did. We talking passing down help for Young. 

Second chunk.  Yeah, the Eagles had a committee.  And they inserted RBs into situations that played to their strengths.  Eagles are a good team.  Which was rushing for Miles.  It’s why it talks about COMPLIMENTING Miles with an exciting dual threat RB. 

again last 3 years, no one would define Sanders and Hubbard as passing down RBs.   We got a rookie QB that is going to need to get it out quick.  That’s not Sanders’ natural gig and we have seen that the last several years.  We should round out the backfield by getting someone proven to be good in pass pro and receiving.   Bryce Young’s development matters most.  Get someone that actual has proven they can do the job well.   

2023 should be about Bryce Young.  Not avoiding an easy add and betting Miles can somehow be someone the Eagles said he wasn’t.  

You're calling 2022 a negative when analysts were calling it a breakout season?

Also ignoring the part where people (including our own Mike Kaye) have continuously called Sanders underutilized in the passing game?

Okay...

[CRA]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're calling 2022 a negative when analysts were calling it a breakout season?

Also ignoring the part where people (including our own Mike Kaye) have continuously called Sanders underutilized in the passing game?

Okay...

he had a breakout year as a rusher.    Which I acknowledge is a strength and glad he is here to do.  And that's the role the Eagles used him in.  The discussion is about the Panthers not having a well-rounded committee and a strong back for the rookie in passing scenarios.   Miles Sanders and Chubba Hubbard are not receiving backs.  And they especially aren't good RBs in that department when you factor in having a rookie QB that is going to need to be getting rid of it quick. 

Take someone else's take....

2022 PFF receiving grades for all RBs 

CMC - 1 out of 149

Miles Sanders - 148 out of 149

I'm glad you listen to beat writers.  Go listen to all the Philly writers who have documented and discussed why Sanders was used less and less in the receiving game as his career went on.  There are reasons that aren't a secret in regards to the WHY he was utilized less and less in the passing game.  Reasons why the Eagles leaned on Gainwell over Sanders overall in the postseason too.   Philly writers that covered him for 4 years.  Maybe check there thoughts out too. 

 

[MechaZain]

On 7/22/2023 at 2:17 PM, Eric4280 said:

By doing what exactly lol?

Yeah I don't know what this thread is getting at. Dude's been in the franchise quarterback pipeline for half of his life. He couldn't be more ready for this.

[Icege]

16 minutes ago, CRA said:

Miles Sanders and Chubba Hubbard are not receiving backs.  And they especially aren't good RBs in that department when you factor in having a rookie QB that is going to need to be getting rid of it quick. 

Take someone else's take....

2022 PFF receiving grades for all RBs 

CMC - 1 out of 149

Miles Sanders - 148 out of 149

I'm glad you listen to beat writers.  Go listen to all the Philly writers who have documented and discussed why Sanders was used less and less in the receiving game as his career went on.  There are reasons that aren't a secret in regards to the WHY he was utilized less and less in the passing game.  Reasons why the Eagles leaned on Gainwell over Sanders overall in the postseason too.   Philly writers that covered him for 4 years.  Maybe check there thoughts out too. 

Agreed on Chuba having stonehands. However, he could also develop into a quality starting RB like Miles Sanders has.

Regarding Sanders as a pass catcher, he definitely had issues in his sophomore season. His 53.2% catch percentage from that season is heavily influenced by how much Wentz sucked when targeting him, arguably more so than his 7 drops (which were way too many, don't get me wrong there). 52 targets, 28 of them catches, 7 of them drops... that's 17 passes that completely missed him. It's worth noting that since that season, he's only dropped 3 total passes (1 in 2021, 2 last season). I'd also like to point out, in support of how bad Chuba's hands are, that he dropped 7 passes on just 37 targets during his rookie season. He dropped 1 of his 17 targets last year though.

Also have to take into consideration the QB + style of play. Jalen Hurts rarely targets his RBs, which is backed up by Sanders' targets prior to Hurts starting. Just look at his targets from 2021 + 2022:

2021 Targets

• 104 - DeVonta Smith, WR
• 76 - Dallas Goedert, TE
• 62 - Quez Watkins, WR
• 57 - Jalen Reagor, WR
• 50 - Kenneth Gainwell, RB
• 34 - Miles Sanders, RB

2022 Targets

• 145 - AJ Brown, WR
• 136 - DeVonta Smith, WR
• 69 - Dallas Goedert, TE
• 51 - Quez Watkins, WR
• 29 - Kenneth Gainwell, RB
• 26 - Miles Sanders, RB

Gainwell was also the change of pace back for the Eagles. Yea, in the postseason they started going with him primarily but that could also be due to them thinking they put some wear and tear on Miles.

Kenneth Gainwell

• 2021: 298 snaps (29%), 68 rushing attempts, 50 targets
• 2022: 331 snaps (28%), 53 rushing attempts, 29 targets

Miles Sanders

• 2021: 426 snaps (53%), 137 rushing attempts, 34 targets
• 2022: 673 snaps (57%), 259 rushing attempts, 26 targets

I don't agree that Miles Sanders is not an effective pass catcher out of the backfield. Is he as elite as CMC? No, but in terms of being a 3-down back he fits that role and I think will do just fine for Bryce Young as his safety valve out of the backfield.

[Gerry Green]

56 minutes ago, Icege said:

Agreed on Chuba having stonehands. However, he could also develop into a quality starting RB like Miles Sanders has.

Regarding Sanders as a pass catcher, he definitely had issues in his sophomore season. His 53.2% catch percentage from that season is heavily influenced by how much Wentz sucked when targeting him, arguably more so than his 7 drops (which were way too many, don't get me wrong there). 52 targets, 28 of them catches, 7 of them drops... that's 17 passes that completely missed him. It's worth noting that since that season, he's only dropped 3 total passes (1 in 2021, 2 last season). I'd also like to point out, in support of how bad Chuba's hands are, that he dropped 7 passes on just 37 targets during his rookie season. He dropped 1 of his 17 targets last year though.

Also have to take into consideration the QB + style of play. Jalen Hurts rarely targets his RBs, which is backed up by Sanders' targets prior to Hurts starting. Just look at his targets from 2021 + 2022:

2021 Targets

• 104 - DeVonta Smith, WR
• 76 - Dallas Goedert, TE
• 62 - Quez Watkins, WR
• 57 - Jalen Reagor, WR
• 50 - Kenneth Gainwell, RB
• 34 - Miles Sanders, RB

2022 Targets

• 145 - AJ Brown, WR
• 136 - DeVonta Smith, WR
• 69 - Dallas Goedert, TE
• 51 - Quez Watkins, WR
• 29 - Kenneth Gainwell, RB
• 26 - Miles Sanders, RB

Gainwell was also the change of pace back for the Eagles. Yea, in the postseason they started going with him primarily but that could also be due to them thinking they put some wear and tear on Miles.

Kenneth Gainwell

• 2021: 298 snaps (29%), 68 rushing attempts, 50 targets
• 2022: 331 snaps (28%), 53 rushing attempts, 29 targets

Miles Sanders

• 2021: 426 snaps (53%), 137 rushing attempts, 34 targets
• 2022: 673 snaps (57%), 259 rushing attempts, 26 targets

I don't agree that Miles Sanders is not an effective pass catcher out of the backfield. Is he as elite as CMC? No, but in terms of being a 3-down back he fits that role and I think will do just fine for Bryce Young as his safety valve out of the backfield.

 

Good stuff. This seems to confirm that Myles can be a 3 down back. Wonder how @CRA will spin this?

[CRA]

15 minutes ago, Icege said:

Agreed on Chuba having stonehands. However, he could also develop into a quality starting RB like Miles Sanders has.

Regarding Sanders as a pass catcher, he definitely had issues in his sophomore season. His 53.2% catch percentage from that season is heavily influenced by how much Wentz sucked when targeting him, arguably more so than his 7 drops (which were way too many, don't get me wrong there). 52 targets, 28 of them catches, 7 of them drops... that's 17 passes that completely missed him. It's worth noting that since that season, he's only dropped 3 total passes (1 in 2021, 2 last season). I'd also like to point out, in support of how bad Chuba's hands are, that he dropped 7 passes on just 37 targets during his rookie season. He dropped 1 of his 17 targets last year though.

Also have to take into consideration the QB + style of play. Jalen Hurts rarely targets his RBs, which is backed up by Sanders' targets prior to Hurts starting. Just look at his targets from 2021 + 2022:

2021 Targets

• 104 - DeVonta Smith, WR
• 76 - Dallas Goedert, TE
• 62 - Quez Watkins, WR
• 57 - Jalen Reagor, WR
• 50 - Kenneth Gainwell, RB
• 34 - Miles Sanders, RB

2022 Targets

• 145 - AJ Brown, WR
• 136 - DeVonta Smith, WR
• 69 - Dallas Goedert, TE
• 51 - Quez Watkins, WR
• 29 - Kenneth Gainwell, RB
• 26 - Miles Sanders, RB

Gainwell was also the change of pace back for the Eagles. Yea, in the postseason they started going with him primarily but that could also be due to them thinking they put some wear and tear on Miles.

Kenneth Gainwell

• 2021: 298 snaps (29%), 68 rushing attempts, 50 targets
• 2022: 331 snaps (28%), 53 rushing attempts, 29 targets

Miles Sanders

• 2021: 426 snaps (53%), 137 rushing attempts, 34 targets
• 2022: 673 snaps (57%), 259 rushing attempts, 26 targets

I don't agree that Miles Sanders is not an effective pass catcher out of the backfield. Is he as elite as CMC? No, but in terms of being a 3-down back he fits that role and I think will do just fine for Bryce Young as his safety valve out of the backfield.

So let's take PFF grade last year on Miles Sanders as a receiving option amongst RBs in 2022.  148 out of 149 RBs graded.  I mean, even if you don't love PFF.   They get in the ballpark of things.  And they didn't just deem him not effective.  They deemed him really bad in both 2022 and 2020 in the receiving game. 

Miles Sanders is a natural rusher.  Not pass catcher.  The fixation on him needing to be THE DUDE every down here just isn't something I can get down with based on his last 3 years.    I mean, a featured RB isn't something I want to begin with.  Very few fit that mold in reality.  A really good NFL team just told you he isn't that dude.   Committees don't just make sense financially....they also generally make sense in being effective. 

He is a weak receiving option w/ a history of meh pass pro.  Solid rusher.  He has a place here. I don't dislike him.  Bryce Young deserves more IMO.  

 

 

 

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, Gerry Green said:

 

Good stuff. This seems to confirm that Myles can be a 3 down back. Wonder how @CRA will spin this?

graded the 147th RB out of 148 by PFF as a receiver in 2022 by PFF

graded 110th RB out of 140 by PFF as a pass blocker in 2022 by PFF

I mean, that is why he isn't an Eagle and Swift is.  

But yeah, a really good team deemed him not fit for that 3rd down role so it would make sense for us to do it with our rookie QB. 

my hope is they are letting Shenault essentially audition for that 3rd down role first.   Because he can do the pure receiving aspect of Bryce getting it out hot.  Lot of consistent talk about wanting him to be a lot more than be a gadget backfield guy.  Not super cool with a guy just learning to pass pro in the backfield protecting Bryce though if him auditioning for that is the plan. 

[csx]

He's not getting paid like an every down back so I'm not sure why people are up in arms.  Hiis contract averages $6.4 million vs the top paid RBs who are averaging 10-16 million. People point out that he got the biggest RB contract (ignoring the handful who got franchise tags that were significantly higher) but he is still not in the upper tier.

Staley knows what Sanders can provide and he championed bringing him in.  At this point that is good enough for me.

https://overthecap.com/position/running-back

Edited July 26, 2023 by csx

[Gerry Green]

12 minutes ago, CRA said:

graded the 147th RB out of 148 by PFF as a receiver in 2022 by PFF

graded 110th RB out of 140 by PFF as a pass blocker in 2022 by PFF

I mean, that is why he isn't an Eagle and Swift is.  

But yeah, a really good team deemed him not fit for that 3rd down role so it would make sense for us to do it with our rookie QB. 

 

 

You have been given information that shows Myles has become a reliable receiver, by showing his drop rate has improved dramatically.

 

But hey, keep playing that PFF card.

 

And Swift is as soft as they come. Duce couldn't get him on the field if he had ANY injury. Runs out of bounds instead of fighting for that 1st down. You don't know what he did for the Lions last year do you? You are going by college not his pro career. lol

 

Your version of Myles only exists in your head.

 

Edit to add; Myles was the best RB on the market. We got him at a fair price. And Bryce will be happy to have Myles next to him.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Gerry Green

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, csx said:

He's not getting paid like an every down back so I'm not sure why people are up in arms.  Hiis contract averages $6.4 million vs the top paid RBs who are averaging 10-16 million. People point out that he got the biggest RB contract (ignoring the handful who got franchise tags that were significantly higher) but he is still not in the upper tier.

https://overthecap.com/position/running-back

Just to be clear, I'm not upset about his pay.  I just think the smart thing to do for Bryce Young is to give him a more well-rounded committee.   We lack a proven and good 3rd down option type for the rookie.  That's what a good committee should be.  Diverse.  A small rookie QB should have proven guys too.  

for some reason some are fixated that Miles Sanders should basically be a poor mans CMC and play every down. 

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Gerry Green said:

 

You have been given information that shows Myles has become a reliable receiver, by showing his drop rate has improved dramatically.

 

But hey, keep playing that PFF card.

lol.  I mean, PFF is just one thing.  That said he was horrific at that job.  You can ignore that.  You can ignore what the Eagles did with him.  You can ignore all the consistent reporting on Sanders' game and what he is good and bad at. 

Chubba had a better drop % than Sanders last year.  Guess Hubbard is Marshall Faulk now. 

[Gerry Green]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

Just to be clear, I'm not upset about his pay.  I just think the smart thing to do for Bryce Young is to give him a more well-rounded committee.   We lack a proven and good 3rd down option type for the rookie.  That's what a good committee should be.  Diverse.  A small rookie QB should have proven guys too.  

for some reason some are fixated that Miles Sanders should basically be a poor mans CMC and play every down. 

 

And for some strange reason you refuse to see the mounds of information directed at you that claims Myles can be an every down back. 

 

Strange, nobody but you brings up CMC. We know he isn't. But we do know he can play the RB position a whole lot better than you give him credit for.

[Gerry Green]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

lol.  I mean, PFF is just one thing.  That said he was horrific at that job.  You can ignore that.  You can ignore what the Eagles did with him.  You can ignore all the consistent reporting on Sanders' game and what he is good and bad at. 

Chubba had a better drop % than Sanders last year.  Guess Hubbard is Marshall Faulk now. 

 

lol I'm done with this joke. It's played out. You just keep playing that 8 track and enjoy your time. 

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, Gerry Green said:

 

And for some strange reason you refuse to see the mounds of information directed at you that claims Myles can be an every down back. 

 

Strange, nobody but you brings up CMC. We know he isn't. But we do know he can play the RB position a whole lot better than you give him credit for.

Good rusher.  That's what he is.  He gets credit for that.  We needed one. 

Dude has holes in his game.  Bryce Young is what matters.  Matters why more than the annual over the top hype train game. 

We need more in our backfield than Sanders and Hubbard.  That's not controversial.