Anybody else think we are putting to much on Bryce's plate?

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, RumHam said:

don't forget we have hunter henry. might as well throw ian thomas out there just b/c he has experience, although not that great.

you already forgot him lol. 

you mean, Hayden Hurst?  I mean, he is a fine TE upgrade.  That's what you want to do, get better.  But we sucked at TE.   We now have an average starting TE.  I'm fine w/ the TE add.  I feel we should of added more at TE to bring that group up though.  Still think we whiffed in the TE heavy draft and should of snagged the UGA freak show. 

[Gerry Green]

 

I see that woulda, coulda, shoulda season is still in full bloom. Come on Training Camp.

[mc52beast]

Dude is probably one of the smartest to play football, he knows his limitations and so does the staff he has around him. Putting a “#1” around him would possibly make him force throws to one person.

Right now the offense is where it needs to be at.

[Barney]

Is anyone else worried the sky is falling?  Asking for a friend. 

[backINblack28]

I would argue he has the least on his plate other than any other rookie first overall pick in history? A 7 win team that missed the playoffs by 2 officiating blunders without a QB instead of most teams at the top of the draft (for example the 2-14 team that Cam joined made some nice UFA TE pick ups but that roster was yikes)..Cam improved us by 4 wins. If Bryce can give us 4 wins on top of last year...

[CRA]

13 minutes ago, backINblack28 said:

I would argue he has the least on his plate other than any other rookie first overall pick in history? A 7 win team that missed the playoffs by 2 officiating blunders without a QB instead of most teams at the top of the draft (for example the 2-14 team that Cam joined made some nice UFA TE pick ups but that roster was yikes)..Cam improved us by 4 wins. If Bryce can give us 4 wins on top of last year...

That doesn’t seem to be fair math for Bryce Young.   Cam had a STUD cast around him offensively as a rookie and getting to 7 is a lot different than getting to 11. 

we got to 7 wins last year by winning a game where we had 32 passing yards on the day and scored 10 points.   Our schedule should be tougher this year.  Saints and Falcons should be better.  

[Turtle]

Skipped through some of the back and forth, but in response to OP - absolutely not.

This isn’t a child. He’s a grown man - he was hired to do a job. 

Matt Ruhle obviously had some daddy issues.

[backINblack28]

58 minutes ago, CRA said:

That doesn’t seem to be fair math for Bryce Young.   Cam had a STUD cast around him offensively as a rookie and getting to 7 is a lot different than getting to 11. 

we got to 7 wins last year by winning a game where we had 32 passing yards on the day and scored 10 points.   Our schedule should be tougher this year.  Saints and Falcons should be better.  

didn't mean that was an expectation or fair that we would just get 11 wins. just saying--as a general rule, bottom line, it matters to me that we were scraping the edge of the playoffs last year without league average QB play and now, IMO, at worst, we will have league average QB play. Falcons defense might be marginally better but I wholeheartedly disagree otherwise as their 3rd round starting QB wasn't good. TB should be demonstrably worse and were already pretty bad with the best QB of all time. I've watched plenty of Carr and I don't see him coming in and just being some superstar but the saints are the team to beat nonetheless.  My point was just that rookies who are drafted literally every other time in history other than Jared Goff who came into not starting with a dead end fired halfway thru the season Jeff Fisher -- come into WAY worse circumstances than Bryce

Edited July 25, 2023 by backINblack28

[ladypanther]

Bryce has the advantage of having very good coaches and good support (Dalton).  I am sure the coaches are going to be smart and will not game plan for him to throw 400 yds a game to get a win.  The offense was designed to take a lot of  pressure off of him. There is a running game and some vet receivers.  There is not a diva demanding the ball. That's one reason this team is different from most of the teams that a #1 draft pick QB lands on. Young does not have the pressure of putting the team on his back. He can play the game that he is ready for and each week that will get a little more complex.  He will make mistakes but he is not likely to repeat the same mistakes. I am also expecting that we have a coaching staff that is capable of making adjustments.

So no, I do not think we are putting too much on him.  This team was designed so that he does not have to be a hero.  We can start with a goal of decent, smart play from our rookie QB and then go from there.

[CRA]

13 minutes ago, ladypanther said:

Bryce has the advantage of having very good coaches and good support (Dalton).  I am sure the coaches are going to be smart and will not game plan for him to throw 400 yds a game to get a win.  The offense was designed to take a lot of  pressure off of him. There is a running game and some vet receivers.  There is not a diva demanding the ball. That's one reason this team is different from most of the teams that a #1 draft pick QB lands on. Young does not have the pressure of putting the team on his back. He can play the game that he is ready for and each week that will get a little more complex.  He will make mistakes but he is not likely to repeat the same mistakes. I am also expecting that we have a coaching staff that is capable of making adjustments.

So no, I do not think we are putting too much on him.  This team was designed so that he does not have to be a hero.  We can start with a goal of decent, smart play from our rookie QB and then go from there.

teams are going to load the box and force the pass.   We got a stable of RBs with bad hands.  We have a very average receiving cast compared to the rest of the league. 

Good coaches or not, you got to have talent that can win in the situations you get put in. 

I just expect a rockier road than some here.  I love the Bryce pick.  I just think expectations for this year are coming in pretty dang high for a rookie QB who will be in an offense that is new to everyone involved.  Every aspect is a brand new marriage.  The Panthers would basically have to be an anomaly of sorts to have real success with the way we are entering this season.  And the general consensus here is playoffs.  That seems high.  An unneeded expectations for Young.   Just seems to be a predictable path, going to end up having folks end up bashing Bryce for being a standard rookie going through rookie things. 

I just care about growth from Bryce.  I care about that more than wins in 2023.  

[ladypanther]

16 minutes ago, CRA said:

We got a stable of RBs with bad hands.

Sanders is now the exception here.  Hurst and Thielen may not light up the game but they can be reliable pass catchers.  I am sure they expect teams to come after the rookie QB and will be ready for that.

[CRA]

Just now, ladypanther said:

Sanders is now the exception here.  Hurst and Thielen may not light up the game but they can be reliable pass catchers.  I am sure they expect teams to come after the rookie QB and will be ready for that.

Miles Sandes isn't a good pass catcher.  It's largely why he found his way out in Philly.   After his rookie season, he began to have big issues in the pass game.  It's pretty well documented.  Really bad sophomore season as a pass catcher.  Plagued him in camps after that.  Philly never trusted him again really in that role.  Which is why they consistently pulled him in those scenarios going forward in favor of RBs more reliable.  We know Hubbard isn't that dude.  We have early down runners.  Which is fine.  Just hope they end up rounding out the backfield before the season starts. 

We have a skill hole in our backfield IMO.  Especially given Young is going to have to unload it quick and often this upcoming season. 

[Mr. Scot]

13 minutes ago, CRA said:

Miles Sandes isn't a good pass catcher.  It's largely why he found his way out in Philly.   After his rookie season, he began to have big issues in the pass game.  It's pretty well documented.  Really bad sophomore season as a pass catcher.  Plagued him in camps after that.  Philly never trusted him again really in that role.  Which is why they consistently pulled him in those scenarios going forward in favor of RBs more reliable.  We know Hubbard isn't that dude.  We have early down runners.  Which is fine.  Just hope they end up rounding out the backfield before the season starts. 

We have a skill hole in our backfield IMO.  Especially given Young is going to have to unload it quick and often this upcoming season. 

Don't think that's telling the whole story.

Here's an analysis from a Philly reporter talking to Sanders himself around his second year.

Why Miles Sanders' receiving yards are down

You also have to account for other things, like the fact that he was catching passes from either a declining Carson Wentz or a still developing Jalen Hurts. Then last year the Eagles went run heavy in their offense.

Context matters...

Edited July 25, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[backINblack28]

The part the outside pundits aren't able to as easily quantify is they just see that we didn't have a great receiving corps, and we lost a bonafide #1. That makes the subheading easy for them to latch onto or write--that our skill positions are average at best.

That greatly ignores several things:

1. our TE position was ATROCIOUS, and not to impugn/degrade Tremble OR Ian, it's just that Tremble is still young/neither one of them is an every down, also blocking TE. Hurst is that guy, and while he may be fringe top 10 or so, his performance and presence to make Ian/Tremble mismatches in the pass game at TE2 and providing better blocking and mismatches at TE1 is a HUGE difference from last year. They may not remember -- but we can. The fact that we can RELY on the TE position for 3rd down conversions/running game blocking on early downs/ passing game mismatches at TE 2 on playaction, etc is an enormous difference that we have not had since Greg left.

2. our WR positional depth behind Moore wasn't great, but with TMJ making a leap, and now Laviska, Byrd, Smith being depth behind Chark/Theilen/Mingo, especially when you have Theilen to essentially be a move the sticks guy with Chark injury free providing very similar numbers to DJ Moore--not saying he is DJ Moore, but with talent around him and pressure off, he will be just fine, especially with Mingo and TMJ with all pressure off/the ability to provide extra and mismatches/etc or do better if they vault into a spot. The depth to me matters more than having DJ getting blanketed last year/Baker not being able to find him even when he was open/still almost making the playoffs. Playmaking won't be highlight reels from DJ, no. But playmaking by committee---where have we seen that. KC--no matter who is at WR. scheme them open, get them the ball, and most of all the fact that when you have every target as a capable playmaker and a QB who can get them the ball

3. our OL when we decided to win by hard nose/run first football....they succeeded. So now we've upgraded (from Freeman/stable) at RB and can still win with a run first mentality or at least a balanced one. Teams last year were not scared of us throwing the ball and we still won running the ball. I believe at worst, Bryce will be able to perform above Darnold/PJ level so that teams cannot just pack the line to stop Sanders.

4. our defense has been young since 2020. we're getting to the point with the DB/Horn/Chinn/Burns where they're still young but no longer in an experience fashion--just in age. DB IMO was very close if not our outright defensive MVP to me last year.  Chinn was limited by injury, scheme etc and him returning to any semblance of who we've seen him be is enormous given we have much more help on the safety/back end.

5. the amount of pressure our D had on them last year to essentially give us good field position/know that we would either get field goals or score around or less than 20...it's a different game this year. in 2015, our defense had secondary dudes off the street, and despite a couple of all timers and being overall good--they gave up points and yards. but also--they held leads and made plays when it mattered. That will be much more of a similar look to me this year since our offense will be more capable of moving the ball thru the air. In my mind if you look at vs. AZ, @ Baltimore and vs Pitt last year, those games flip just with #5 here.

last but not least.  I understand not wanting to put too much pressure on Bryce, but in thinking of that context plus where our roster was at--we have leadership and good position groups who can succeed WITH him whereas last year everyone had to succeed in spite of a glaring hole/ at best absolute untrustworthy inconsistency at QB. Now..instead of that glaring hole, we have someone who can make plays, passing and running, who has vet targets at almost every spot and promising young players at others. defensive coordinators last year literally could rest their hat on 'stop the run, we win' and we still pulled out 7.  I'm not saying Bryce will come in and immediately be 2015 Cam, but when Cam was a rookie, and our roster was bad, defensive coordinators just focused on trying to pressure him as much as possible. When a guy can step in and handle that, it throws the league for a loop instantly, because then all of the sudden you have to do something you haven't had to do when considering the panthers as an opponent since 2018. Defending/caring about all 11 offensive players and the fact that the QB is capable of beating you. it's a franchise defining change and i've missed it oh so much.

I have cautious optimism that Bryce can at least be an effective game manager but I think we'll see that plus the capability to take over some games even this early in his career, just as Cam did. Cam did not come in this prepared/ready as he had a lot of stops and only one true college year without playing much of NFL offense (and still had 3 of the top 10 best rookie QB game performances ever).  Bryce has been this #1 dude since HS and has shown it every step of the way. I'm betting he's capable of stealing the 1-3 games we need to separate this year's team from last to get us to host a playoff home game for winning the south. Then, if we're facing Goff/Daniel Jones/Kirk Cousins/Dak etc at home in playoff week 1...who do you think is more afraid of what might happen...them or us?