It’s not going to be cheap to retain Derrick Big Baby Brown

[Icege]

10 minutes ago, FuFuLamePoo said:

Dexter Lawrence is doubled all the time and makes it happen. I’m not saying Brown isn’t good I’m just saying he is not a premium talent. Donald is doubled all the time and makes it happen also.

Dexter Lawrence also has a full season more played than Derrick Brow. Their statistics from their first three seasons are very similar:

	Derrick Brown	Dexter Lawrence	+/-
Sacks	6	9	-3
Pressures	48	48	0
Hurries	15	17	-2
QB Hits	33	30	3
QB Knockdowns	26	19	7
Tackles for Loss	21	14	7
Pass Deflections	15	5	10
Interceptions	1	0	1
Forced Fumbles	0	2	-2

Over an equal timespan, DLaw has 3 more sacks, 2 more hurries, and 2 more forced fumbles than DBrown. On the flipside, DBrown has 10 more pass deflections, 7 more tackles for loss, 7 more QB knockdowns, 3 more QB hits, and 1 more interception than DLaw.

Lawrence might just end up being the best comp to use for Brown's next contract, though Brown might be able to argue that the other had Leonard Williams next to him for the entirety of his career.

[csx]

21 hours ago, Icege said:

Can't help but wonder how many of the folks whining about Brown's sack total have forgotten the old DT addage: "Two on me, someone's free."

Fairly important to consider, especially given how Derrick Brown was one of the most often double-teamed defensive linemen in the league the last couple of seasons.

According to this he was middle of the pack for being double teamed.

 

I have no agenda. I think he's a fine player.  I just like to know numbers

[FuFuLamePoo]

3 minutes ago, csx said:

According to this he was middle of the pack for being double teamed.

 

I have no agenda. I think he's a fine player.  I just like to know numbers

We’re trying to act like he’s someone that he isn’t solely because of draft positioning. Had we taken him in like Round 2 (where I had him graded) no one is acting like we have a potentially 15-20m/per year player on our hands.

[Icege]

6 hours ago, csx said:

According to this he was middle of the pack for being double teamed.

 

I have no agenda. I think he's a fine player.  I just like to know numbers

In his rookie season, only 5 DTs in the league were double teamed more often


Can't find him on the list for his sophomore season (looks like the only Carolina DL that Walder tracked that season was Burns?), but even watching the game he consistently pulled double teams from opposing defenses.

Plus, as noted prior, his stats against the run can't be ignored either.

EDIT: Did find this from his sophomore season tho.
https://www.panthers.com/video/steve-smith-on-derrick-brown-double-team-machine

Edited July 15, 2023 by Icege

[SCO96]

On 7/13/2023 at 5:24 PM, SOJA said:

He won't get that much money but he is going to get paid. This will be a big year for him. A legit pass rushing DT is critical to success in today's league so I'm fine with paying him if he continues to improve. 

I think it is questionable to call Derrick Brown a legit pass rushing DT. Our DT's combined for 2 sacks last season. DB got 1/2 of that number.

I'm old enough to remember Joe Greene and Randy White dominating from the entire line in the late 1970's. I've seen guys like John Randle, Warren Sapp, Bryant Young, Howie Long terrorize QB's from the DT position. Today, Aaron Donald averages more sacks than most DE's. Those type of guys are worth $20 million a season. Thirty-two year old Fletcher Cox has 7 sacks for the Eagles in 2022 despite being several years past his prime. I could even see paying a 25-26 year old Cox that type of money. "So far" Brown hasn't proven to be that type of player. If his current level of play continues thru his current contract and he asks for $20 million a year to resign, then it would be in our best interest to let him move on.

You hit the nail on the head when you said "if he continues to improve". I'd take that even further. He needs to become a dominant player at his position before I'd even consider dishing out that type of money. As a GM, if I knew he was looking for that type of contract I'd start looking for his replacement in the draft over the next two seasons in order to have someone ready to replace when/if we decided to part ways.

[Gerry Green]

2 hours ago, SCO96 said:

I think it is questionable to call Derrick Brown a legit pass rushing DT. Our DT's combined for 2 sacks last season. DB got 1/2 of that number.

I'm old enough to remember Joe Greene and Randy White dominating from the entire line in the late 1970's. I've seen guys like John Randle, Warren Sapp, Bryant Young, Howie Long terrorize QB's from the DT position. Today, Aaron Donald averages more sacks than most DE's. Those type of guys are worth $20 million a season. Thirty-two year old Fletcher Cox has 7 sacks for the Eagles in 2022 despite being several years past his prime. I could even see paying a 25-26 year old Cox that type of money. "So far" Brown hasn't proven to be that type of player. If his current level of play continues thru his current contract and he asks for $20 million a year to resign, then it would be in our best interest to let him move on.

You hit the nail on the head when you said "if he continues to improve". I'd take that even further. He needs to become a dominant player at his position before I'd even consider dishing out that type of money. As a GM, if I knew he was looking for that type of contract I'd start looking for his replacement in the draft over the next two seasons in order to have someone ready to replace when/if we decided to part ways.

 

If you aren't going to pay him, you should have traded him. As he is still here, he needs to be paid. Really is just that simple.

[csx]

On 7/15/2023 at 11:11 AM, FuFuLamePoo said:

We’re trying to act like he’s someone that he isn’t solely because of draft positioning. Had we taken him in like Round 2 (where I had him graded) no one is acting like we have a potentially 15-20m/per year player on our hands.

He will easily get 15 

[CanadianCat]

On 7/13/2023 at 3:57 PM, CamWhoaaCam said:

Every time it's time for our young elite players to get paid someone makes a thread about how expensive they will be.

THIS

[AU-panther]

On 7/15/2023 at 10:11 AM, FuFuLamePoo said:

We’re trying to act like he’s someone that he isn’t solely because of draft positioning. Had we taken him in like Round 2 (where I had him graded) no one is acting like we have a potentially 15-20m/per year player on our hands.

Exactly how much do you think he is going to sign for? Personally I think the idea of $15m is laughable. 

[Panthercougar68]

We see these numbers and get sticker shock but you have to look back and everyone (except RBs) make more per year now than 10 years ago.

[SCO96]

4 hours ago, Gerry Green said:

 

If you aren't going to pay him, you should have traded him. As he is still here, he needs to be paid. Really is just that simple.

Brown was picked in the top 10 of the 2020 draft. We have him under contract for two more seasons. There was no need to trade him this offseason. He could still blossom into something special, especially with all of the coaching changes we've made for 2023.

But, if he doesn't become more dominant, I probably wouldn't be that opposed to moving him before the 2024 season. If I were offered a #1, or very high 2nd round pick, I'd be strongly inclined to take the deal. 

[FuFuLamePoo]

On 7/18/2023 at 2:53 PM, AU-panther said:

Exactly how much do you think he is going to sign for? Personally I think the idea of $15m is laughable. 

It's pointless to talk about right now, we need to see how he plays this season. Again, the new coaches have spoken very highly of him so maybe this is his true breakout season. Right now I'd offer him around 12M AAV and if he thinks he can find more elsewhere let him go find out. All I know is I'm firm in my belief that so far we have overrated him because of where he was drafted. We're a better team because of him, but he's far from irreplaceable. 

[AU-panther]

12 hours ago, FuFuLamePoo said:

It's pointless to talk about right now, we need to see how he plays this season. Again, the new coaches have spoken very highly of him so maybe this is his true breakout season. Right now I'd offer him around 12M AAV and if he thinks he can find more elsewhere let him go find out. All I know is I'm firm in my belief that so far we have overrated him because of where he was drafted. We're a better team because of him, but he's far from irreplaceable. 

It wasn’t pointless when you acted like people were crazy to expect more than 15-20m.

[SOJA]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:32 AM, SCO96 said:

I think it is questionable to call Derrick Brown a legit pass rushing DT. Our DT's combined for 2 sacks last season. DB got 1/2 of that number.

I'm old enough to remember Joe Greene and Randy White dominating from the entire line in the late 1970's. I've seen guys like John Randle, Warren Sapp, Bryant Young, Howie Long terrorize QB's from the DT position. Today, Aaron Donald averages more sacks than most DE's. Those type of guys are worth $20 million a season. Thirty-two year old Fletcher Cox has 7 sacks for the Eagles in 2022 despite being several years past his prime. I could even see paying a 25-26 year old Cox that type of money. "So far" Brown hasn't proven to be that type of player. If his current level of play continues thru his current contract and he asks for $20 million a year to resign, then it would be in our best interest to let him move on.

You hit the nail on the head when you said "if he continues to improve". I'd take that even further. He needs to become a dominant player at his position before I'd even consider dishing out that type of money. As a GM, if I knew he was looking for that type of contract I'd start looking for his replacement in the draft over the next two seasons in order to have someone ready to replace when/if we decided to part ways.

agreed he isn't there yet but that's partially imo to Matt Rhule asking him to constantly change if he was playing the UT or NT the past few years