Offensive support cast ranked 31st in the league

[panthers55]

If Hurst was a bust with 1700 yards in 5 years but we got him for free,  would you trade a 3rd round pick for a 1st rounder who had 2000 yards  in 4 years or would you think he wasn't worth that??

 

 

 

 

 

Glad we didn't think that when we traded Chicago for Greg Olsen.

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

If Hurst was a bust with 1700 yards in 5 years but we got him for free,  would you trade a 3rd round pick for a 1st rounder who had 2000 yards  in 4 years or would you think he wasn't worth that??

 

 

 

 

 

Glad we didn't think that when we traded Chicago for Greg Olsen.

Olsen had 600+ and 8 TDs in his third season before Martz came to town. Martz was famous for not involving TEs in his passing game. The Bears hiring Martz at OC was the gift that allowed us to steal Olsen from them. He was progressing nicely after an underwhelming rookie year getting better every year before Martz came along. The situations just aren't very comparable even though the baseline talent probably is.

[Jon Snow]

12 minutes ago, CRA said:

True.   Sucks for Hurst. 

Lamar Jackson and Mark Andrews have been the face of that O in Baltimore.  And they were both drafted in the same draft as Hurst.  But behind him.  One WAY behind him at the same position.  But there is no way the football world isn’t going to deem that a busted first round pick given that.  No one should be upset the label applies to him. 

It's hard to call a player that is still playing in the league a "bust". Living up to the hype that is placed on them by draft position is only a fan thing. It's only fan expectations that places boom or bust labels.

Teams on the other hand look at the production they can/could provide the team and the contract value. 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Jon Snow

[LinvilleGorge]

But honestly the baseline talent isn't as close as I thought it was. I knew Olsen had a very nice combine but I thought Hurst had a better performance than he did. The earlier poster suggesting Hurst might be out most athletic TE ever... just laughable.

Hurst:

Olsen:

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

It's hard to call a player that is still playing in the league a "bust". Living up to the hype that is placed on them by draft position only is a fan thing. It's only fan expectations that places boom or bust labels.

Teams on the other hand look at the production they can/could provide the team and the contract value. 

 

 

Bust up until this point is very fair. And Hurst is knocking on the door of 30. It's not like he's some young prospect. We've all seen NFL teams paying former high draft picks with physical talent far more for far longer than they should based on the info available to them.

 

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

Offseason Hopium is a worse drug than crack cocaine

Thielein couldn't do poo with JJ across from him last year. Man is burnt toast. TMJ is a workout warrior and I'm wary of crowning him. Chark will make or break this receiving corp.

I hope Panthers sign Nuk....

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Bust up until this point is very fair. And Hurst is knocking on the door of 30. It's not like he's some young prospect. We've all seen NFL teams paying former high draft picks with physical talent far more for far longer than they should based on the info available to them.

 

It's fair if you are the club that picked him that high thinking you were getting whatever you expected he would be.  It's all at matter of perspective I guess.  

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

It's fair if you are the club that picked him that high thinking you were getting whatever you expected he would be.  It's all at matter of perspective I guess.  

What about the other two teams? Hurst has busted for three teams now. We're team #4 and we paid him like a legit starting TE. I hope we prove to be right in that decision but it honestly doesn't look like a smart gamble. 

I get that we were basically borderline desperate at TE, but that's why I wanted to draft a TE considering this was one of the strongest TE draft classes on paper in recent memory while this year's TE free agency class was basically hot trash.

 

[CRA]

17 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

It's hard to call a player that is still playing in the league a "bust". Living up to the hype that is placed on them by draft position is only a fan thing. It's only fan expectations that places boom or bust labels.

Teams on the other hand look at the production they can/could provide the team and the contract value. 

 

 

Largely agree. 

But it still has real NFL world context.  I mean, coaches and GMs lose jobs over first round investments not living up to the expectations of the pick. 

[CRA]

13 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

What about the other two teams? Hurst has busted for three teams now. We're team #4 and we paid him like a legit starting TE. I hope we prove to be right in that decision but it honestly doesn't look like a smart gamble. 

I get that we were basically borderline desperate at TE, but that's why I wanted to draft a TE considering this was one of the strongest TE draft classes on paper in recent memory while this year's TE free agency class was basically hot trash.

 

Yep, still wish we grabbed the GA TE in the 3rd instead of DJ.  

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Yep, still wish we grabbed the GA TE in the 3rd instead of DJ.  

It just frustrates me because I feel like we rarely take advantage of the strengths of drafts. 

[panthers55]

43 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Olsen had 600+ and 8 TDs in his third season before Martz came to town. Martz was famous for not involving TEs in his passing game. The Bears hiring Martz at OC was the gift that allowed us to steal Olsen from them. He was progressing nicely after an underwhelming rookie year getting better every year before Martz came along. The situations just aren't very comparable even though the baseline talent probably is.

Absolutely. So we looked at the talent , athleticism and potential and decided to take a shot. For what is is worth Olsen only had 500 yards his first season here so he was somewhat of a gamble that paid off. Especially trading a 3rd rounder. 

Do you think Hurst has been well used where he has been or could he be suffering from offenses that were not tight end centric.  His cap hit is 3 million this year which is cheap and we have a year to develop him before his cap hit goes up to 10 million next year. And we can dump him after 2024 with a 2 million cap hit. Was he a deal? No. But there isn't the huge difference you suggest. 

[CRA]

21 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Absolutely. So we looked at the talent , athleticism and potential and decided to take a shot. For what is is worth Olsen only had 500 yards his first season here so he was somewhat of a gamble that paid off. Especially trading a 3rd rounder. 

Do you think Hurst has been well used where he has been or could he be suffering from offenses that were not tight end centric.  His cap hit is 3 million this year which is cheap and we have a year to develop him before his cap hit goes up to 10 million next year. And we can dump him after 2024 with a 2 million cap hit. Was he a deal? No. But there isn't the huge difference you suggest. 

I mean, the Ravens are TE centric.   Atlanta wanted TE to be a focal point.  Young TEs thrived both places too. 

[panthers55]

41 minutes ago, CRA said:

Yep, still wish we grabbed the GA TE in the 3rd instead of DJ.  

I wanted him too. I would have taken him in the second but that is me.