Source: 2022 injury data for turf fields was “awful”

[WarPanthers89]

Article: 

NFL players want all playing surfaces to be grass, not turf. The NFL prefers to let teams play on artificial surfaces, if they so choose.

The debate has intensified in recent months. A Tuesday night feature on HBO’s Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel addressed the situation, focusing on how the use of turf has trickled down to the high-school level, causing an “epidemic” of injuries.

While not quite an epidemic yet at the NFL level, a league source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that the 2022 injury data for turf fields was “awful.”

At this week’s ownership meetings in Minneapolis, NFL chief medical officer Allen Sills acknowledged that the “numbers weren’t good,” without getting into specifics. None of the owners pressed for specifics, we’re told.

We’ve asked the NFL for the data, but the league has not yet responded to two separate emails on the issue.

As the source put it, the relevant representatives of the league office are “experts at confusing the 26 owners who don’t pay attention.” The source added that, on matters of turf vs. grass, the league will gloss over the fundamental differences between injury risk on real grass and injury risk on fake grass.

The situation is gaining momentum, especially with many noticing the willingness of owners of stadiums with artificial turf to find a way to get grass installed for World Cup matches, since grass is a prerequisite to hosting the games.

More and more people think grass should be a prerequisite for hosting NFL games.

Obviously, it all comes down to money. Despite the many billions the league now generates, there’s a degree of cheapness that keeps teams from embracing a better and safer surface. And there’s also a shortsightedness at play, given that they’re failing to protect their investments in the players who are exposed to less-than-ideal working conditions.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/24/source-2022-injury-data-for-turf-fields-was-awful/

Article from the Athletic from last November on “Panthers players join growing chorus speaking out against turf”:

https://theathletic.com/3895423/2022/11/14/panthers-stadium-turf-grass-injuries/

Edited May 24, 2023 by WarPanthers89

[TheCasillas]

I wonder why they didn’t share the highlights of the data?

 

the NFLPA needs to speak up and take action. 

[BrianS]

That next CBA will be a doozy, I'm sure.

[rayzor]

2 hours ago, WarPanthers89 said:

None of the owners pressed for specifics, we’re told.

Why would they? I assume they were just anxious to get this portion of the meeting over with as quickly as possible.

[Jackie Lee]

26 minutes ago, rayzor said:

Why would they? I assume they were just anxious to get this portion of the meeting over with as quickly as possible.

Yeah after Tepper got blasted for that frozen turf vs the Lions I doubt he wanted to keep the convo going

[NanuqoftheNorth]

27 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Yeah after Tepper got blasted for that frozen turf vs the Lions I doubt he wanted to keep the convo going

There is no excuse for not exclusively having natural grass fields in the NFL short of "enough money is never enough" when you're a billionaire owner.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Would love to compare the numbers between kickoff related injuries and turf related injuries to determine which category is more detrimental to the players health.

I have a sneaky suspicion that the category most responsible for player injuries has yet to be addressed by the owners.

Weird.

[WhoKnows]

12 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

I wonder why they didn’t share the highlights of the data?

 

the NFLPA needs to speak up and take action. 

Yeah, weird. It’s funny because we were pretty healthy last year until week 17. Our only key injury was Horn and his was not turf related. You’d think the numbers would be easily available. The injuries are tracked and you know exactly what surface players were on every week. It’s not hard.

[Growl]

The nfl is an autocratic institution which fumes and reviles and cannot stomach any sort of criticism, no matter how ancillary and small it may be

they ran commercials during the draft trying to reframe fans booing Roger goodell as “just a fun part of the experience” and not what it actually is-fans expressing frustration for the poor job he’s done as commissioner.

anyways my point is that the bigger this gets the more stubborn the league is going to get

they are going try and stall this out for as long as possible until a “brand new, state of the art” type of field turf (lol) comes available which they will then very publicly transition to while telling you this has always been the end goal because of their commitment to player safety-anything to avoid any demonstration of humility, they will seek out a third option regardless of quality and potentially even cost in this case.

Wouldnt be surprised to start seeing some propaganda on how dangerous and terrifying blades of grass either (though not enough stop pushing for those soccer matches or course!) 

“I can’t believe it’s <insert current calendar year> and you still have a demographic of people believing football should be played on grass! It’s barbaric! We are way too progressive and future driven for that!”

Edited May 25, 2023 by Growl

[Growl]

at this point, for the League, it’s going to become simply a matter of “Anything But Grass” because that’s what those stupid poor people told us we have to use 

 

expect to see hype propaganda for NeXtGENTurfX coming soon 

[1of10Charnatives]

9 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Would love to compare the numbers between kickoff related injuries and turf related injuries to determine which category is more detrimental to the players health.

I have a sneaky suspicion that the category most responsible for player injuries has yet to be addressed by the owners.

Weird.

Overall the situation feels hugely penny wise and pound foolish on the owners part, getting cheap on surfaces when there is data that shows a difference in injury rate to your millionaire players, the ones your customers pay to see. 

As you imply, it seems especially weird when you look at Tepper in particular, a billionaire who clearly wants to win and was willing to shell out an absurd contract to get Rhule, then eat sunk costs on said contract when it was obvious he wasn't the answer. Who does that but then refuses to switch to grass when the money is all trivial to you anyway? Can having real grass instead of turf possibly cost him anywhere near as much as that one mistake? Tepper, is winning more important to you than the money or not? You're already set for life when it comes to money, why not use the surface that has the best chance to keep your best players on the field, or even just, you know, keep said players happy?

I don't get it.

[rayzor]

2 hours ago, Growl said:

they ran commercials during the draft trying to reframe fans booing Roger goodell as “just a fun part of the experience” and not what it actually is-fans expressing frustration for the poor job he’s done as commissioner.

owners love him because they've made more money because of him. the biggest reason they love him, though, is because he's willing to be the villain so they don't have to. he's the evil face of the ownership. that's why they pay him nearly $70mil/year. he takes the boos for them. 

[pantherclaw]

13 hours ago, rayzor said:

Why would they? I assume they were just anxious to get this portion of the meeting over with as quickly as possible.

So they could eliminate the kick off from the game, in the name of safety. 

Bullshit. 

[Sgt Schultz]

1 hour ago, pantherclaw said:

So they could eliminate the kick off from the game, in the name of safety. 

Bullshit. 

Pretty much.  They are completely committed to player safety, until they are not. 

The reason they wanted that part of the meeting over with is if they dug into the data, they couldn't then deny they knew about the severity.  Part of "plausible deniability" is knowing what information you want to be ignorant to, and then making sure you are never fully exposed to it. 

I hope the NFLPA sticks this issue up their arses.  Other than Arizona coming up with a way to use a grass field inside their domed stadium, they have not made any progress on this issue.

And in terms of cost, the NFL's Super Bowl groundskeeper, George Toma (used to be the groundskeeper at Arrowhead Stadium), who has the nicknames the Sodfather and The God of Sod, has always said to properly care for an artificial turf field was no less work or cost than caring for a grass field.  Then again, this is the guy who would go to the Super Bowl venue to work on the field, and if it was an artificial surface, have a crew on their hands and knees searching for clumps of fibers that welded together from the friction and remove them. 

I doubt the NFL owners care about weeding out clumps of fibers and would love to remain ignorant on why he would do that.