Vikings tried to trade up for Bryce Young?

[Martin]

19 minutes ago, Varking said:

It’s been five hours since my comment and not one person has provided any sort of list they think Bryce has a stronger arm than for sure. Literally every starting QB in the NFL can throw the ball 55-60 yards in the air. I can probably find college clips of any college QB making the throw that was just shown above. 

I agree, don’t see an issue here. Nobody said he won’t be awesome. He just happens to have a just ok arm by NFL standards. These things are not mutually exclusive. It is ok to say everything is not perfect, no need to freak out. 

[USDepartmentOfSavagery]

Bryce can do unique things with his arm. Everyone salivates about his flexibility in the throwing arm. Running around, throwing accurate, crisp passes across his body, sidearm throws with velocity, pitches, and doing so while possessing generational processing and decision making skills. Not many QBs in the history of the NFL can do what he can with a football. That negates the whole argument for “not being able to throw the ball 70 yards” imo. 

[NAS]

4 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

However, it does eliminate a growing element in the NFL today, and that's the uber deep ball to a speedster running a go-route.  Beyond it just being a great weapon to have as it can create monster game-changing plays, it also helps force defenses to account for it on every snap and tends to keep a safety deeper and thus take a defender out of the play on many snaps

This is not even a trend in the NFL  If anything the trend is more attempts, with short and intermediate passing, taking advantage of an RPO style, spread offense, taking advantage of softer coverage due to inability to touch the wide receivers.  You throw deep for balance.

Deep completions were mainly associated with old school passing  where you run it  most of the time and try to go deep off playaction. For reference

Season         Yds per Completion

2022                    10.9  

2012                     11.6   

2002                    11.3   

1992                     11.9

1982                     12.4

1972                     13.2

Edited May 12, 2023 by NAS

[poundaway]

3 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

I don't think you get it

No, they don't line up 40 yards off the ball, but if you have a speedster at WR and a QB with a monster arm, it causes safeties to back up once the ball is snapped and run with that WR running the go-route.

It's not even about completing the passes that deep, it's about having the ability to do so and thus forcing the defense to respect and defend that possibility.  It opens up underneath routes, particularly in the middle of the field, as it removes the safety from that area of the field by default.

It's like why teams with Lebron on it need to build a team filled with shooters around him.  It's to keep the defense needed to stay close to them, and thus open up space in the lane for Lebron to do his work.  To further the basketball analogy, it's like when a terrible shooter gets the ball outside the 3 point line and the defense completely sags off them because they're unafraid of them shooting the 3.  

Same concept, not hard to understand, it's about the threat of something and the defense needing to account for it.

No.  You don't get it.

Its only a threat if you complete them that far.  Long and wrong is not a threat.  Only 2 of the 8 that Mahomes threw longer than 40 yards were even catchable.

Yes >40 yards opens up underneath routes, but it does NOT have to be 60.  Last year, in an entire season Mahomes did not once complete a pass more than 60 yards, but you say that you must be able to complete those.  50 yards opens up the underneath routes just as well as 60.  Young has COMPLETED 50+ yard throws.   

He doesn't have the biggest gun, but as Reich said, he can make the throws a QB needs in the NFL.   Apparently, Texans, Vikings and Reich agree on that.  I'm sorry you don't.

 

[poundaway]

We had the quarterback who has thrown the longest ball in the history of the NFL.  It was a 70.5 yard hail mary thrown against the Baltimore Ravens.  It fell incomplete.

His name is Baker Mayfield and he made that throw when he played for the Browns.

[Varking]

17 minutes ago, poundaway said:

We had the quarterback who has thrown the longest ball in the history of the NFL.  It was a 70.5 yard hail mary thrown against the Baltimore Ravens.  It fell incomplete.

His name is Baker Mayfield and he made that throw when he played for the Browns.

And all folks are saying is he has a stronger arm than Bryce. That doesn’t make him a better QB. Bryce just had a lower end or middling arm compared to his peers. 

[tukafan21]

41 minutes ago, poundaway said:

No.  You don't get it.

Its only a threat if you complete them that far.  Long and wrong is not a threat.  Only 2 of the 8 that Mahomes threw longer than 40 yards were even catchable.

Yes >40 yards opens up underneath routes, but it does NOT have to be 60.  Last year, in an entire season Mahomes did not once complete a pass more than 60 yards, but you say that you must be able to complete those.  50 yards opens up the underneath routes just as well as 60.  Young has COMPLETED 50+ yard throws.   

He doesn't have the biggest gun, but as Reich said, he can make the throws a QB needs in the NFL.   Apparently, Texans, Vikings and Reich agree on that.  I'm sorry you don't.

 

No, you are totally incorrect here.

It's not about actually completing it, at all.  Just because Mahomes only completed 2 passes like that last year, doesn't mean when they sent their WR's on those go routes that the defense just said, "we're good" once they get past 40ish yards and not worry about it.

Just the ability of the QB to put the ball out there at that distance forces the defense to play a little further back.  In every defensive scouting report against a team like the Chiefs, Chargers, Bills, etc (teams with those massive armed QB's), it will have notes in there about watching out for the super deep ball, being aware of it, and accounting for it.

That just will never show up in a scouting report for Bryce, because he doesn't have that arm.

And again, nobody has once said this is a disqualifier for him to being a successful QB, people are just pointing out that he has average arm strength and it takes one thing off the table for us that other teams may have.  Which I think is the bigger problem here, you're just missing the point as to why people are talking about it.

Nobody is saying it's going to keep him from being good, but if you can't objectively look at your players and know their strengths, weaknesses, and how either can benefit or hinder a team's performance, then you have no standing in a discussion like this.  Everything isn't rainbows and butterflies, but it doesn't mean the sky is falling either.

[OldhamA]

12 hours ago, NAS said:

Can he make every NFL throw with his arm strength?  yes

Does he make up for lack of top tier arm strength with top tier anticipation?  Yes

I love Cam but one of his biggest weaknesses was lack of anticipation and he would often have to rely on his arm strength to get the ball to the receiver on time.  We saw what happened when that arm strength went away due to injuries and he couldn't play anymore.

No. Some throws will simply be off the table with Young's arm strength.

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

No. Some throws will simply be off the table with Young's arm strength.

He can make any throw that Burrow can. Is that fair?

[NAS]

12 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

He can make any throw that Burrow can. Is that fair?

Ha! I remember many said Burrow would fail because of his arm strength 

[ForJimmy]

14 minutes ago, NAS said:

Ha! I remember many said Burrow would fail because of his arm strength 

Yeah you can go back and read the draft profiles. Below average arm strength is usually listed as a weakness.

Also about Manning

The number one thing scouting reports got wrong on Manning was that he had a limited upside. This was a knock on him as he didn’t have the arm a player like Leaf had coming out of college and was a pure pocket passer. While there was truth to his limited upside physically he had unlimited potential overall. As he grew as a pro he understood the game even more which helped him consistently make the correct reads in the passing game or make changes at the line of scrimmage. These two skills were things that ended up making him an all-time great.

[TheCasillas]

You guys are so silly. Amazing you can waste so much time in such a pointless argument. 

[ForJimmy]

14 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

You guys are so silly. Amazing you can waste so much time in such a pointless argument. 

[poundaway]

3 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

No, you are totally incorrect here.

It's not about actually completing it, at all.  Just because Mahomes only completed 2 passes like that last year, doesn't mean when they sent their WR's on those go routes that the defense just said, "we're good" once they get past 40ish yards and not worry about it.

Just the ability of the QB to put the ball out there at that distance forces the defense to play a little further back.  In every defensive scouting report against a team like the Chiefs, Chargers, Bills, etc (teams with those massive armed QB's), it will have notes in there about watching out for the super deep ball, being aware of it, and accounting for it.

That just will never show up in a scouting report for Bryce, because he doesn't have that arm.

And again, nobody has once said this is a disqualifier for him to being a successful QB, people are just pointing out that he has average arm strength and it takes one thing off the table for us that other teams may have.  Which I think is the bigger problem here, you're just missing the point as to why people are talking about it.

Nobody is saying it's going to keep him from being good, but if you can't objectively look at your players and know their strengths, weaknesses, and how either can benefit or hinder a team's performance, then you have no standing in a discussion like this.  Everything isn't rainbows and butterflies, but it doesn't mean the sky is falling either.

I'm not saying Young has a awesome arm.  His arm strength is midling. 

Few QB's have Allen's arm.

You're just overestimating the importance of being able to throw 60+ yards inaccurately.  As I said Mahomes threw beyond 40 yards just 8 times last year.  One completion at 57.

How many of Mahomes' passes sailed longer than 60? 

If it is so important, surely someone tracks the vital stat.