The Anti-tankers…. Never forget!!!!

[bythenbrs]

Never forget!

[DeeJay]

If we could rewrite history 

We would have 2 super bowl rings

[Bear Hands]

Wasn't planning to say much bc this is a silly thread--but we managed to land the #1 pick in the draft (a new franchise QB) & our WR group is in a fine spot with Thielen/Chark/Mingo/TMJ/Shenault/Shi/Byrd.  And then pick wise, we're just missing a 1st next year and a 2nd the following. 

We did what we needed to do while still positioning ourselves to compete and not tear anything apart.  Taking more Ls required tearing more apart than simply shipping away DJ in a deal.  

Our GM comes from the always compete Seattle mindset.  Tanking was never happening under Fitterer/Morgan management.  No use in getting all bent about it if you accepted it wasn't happening and just enjoy Sundays for what they are in late fall. 

 

 

[rayzor]

51 minutes ago, DeeJay said:

If we could rewrite history 

We would have 2 super bowl rings

if we only learned how to tank we would have 10 rings.

[Green-Ghost]

On 5/6/2023 at 6:25 PM, rayzor said:

Yeah this thread is going nowhere good.

The whole concept is stupid.

I mean what's the point of it? "Don't you dare root for the team to win because we might and we get a worse pick?" That's not exactly how that works.  I mean if we embrace the suck and, as a fambase, actually WANT to lose for the good of the franchise long term, do you actually think that will affect the outcome?

Or is it that you want the franchise to purposely tank? You want the coaching staff to encourage the players to throw games? You know that might be a bit stupid because there's kind of repercussions to that kind of thing.

Plus people would be losing jobs.

Sorry... The whole thing just stinks of narrow-mindedness.

Applause .  Could not have said this better.  This whole concept of throwing games,,, I can’t say.  It gets into political fights.

A question, however, does anybody remember talk of towing games to get a better draft choice 10 years ago? 20 years ago?

It really looks to me that, throwing games to get a better draft choice is a recent strategy.

yes, I understand the temptation as to why you want that better quarterback. But you don’t know how that quarterback will actually do in the NFL.  what, if losing out on that shiny new quarterback ends up becoming a blessing. 

I remember when my daughter went to the Casino and spent a dollar, into the slot machine.  She had just turned 21 and it was the first time she ever played a slot machine.  She won $2000.  I remember thinking my God she’s going to think that she will win every time she puts money in the slots.

My fear is, too many tankers think that tanking is %100 successful.

 

[Green-Ghost]

6 minutes ago, Green-Ghost said:

Applause .  Could not have said this better.  This whole concept of throwing games,,, I can’t say.  It gets into political fights.

A question, however, does anybody remember talk of towing games to get a better draft choice 10 years ago? 20 years ago?

It really looks to me that, throwing games to get a better draft choice is a recent strategy.

yes, I understand the temptation as to why you want that better quarterback. But you don’t know how that quarterback will actually do in the NFL.  what, if losing out on that shiny new quarterback ends up becoming a blessing. 

I remember when my daughter went to the Casino and spent a dollar, into the slot machine.  She had just turned 21 and it was the first time she ever played a slot machine.  She won $2000.  I remember thinking my God she’s going to think that she will win every time she puts money in the slots.

My fear is, too many tankers think that tanking is %100 successful.

 

I will admit,  I am excited about this Upcoming season.  I think Young will be elite.  

[stratocatter]

People typically see the tank as being over after that year, and now it is time to take the draft haul and get some studs. 

Surprise. It is much more sophisticated; the aim is to be in that position every year. Tepper has bought into long term stealth tanking. (LTST). I wish I could explain but I have said too much already. 

 

[WhoKnows]

3 hours ago, Gerry Green said:

 

I'm beginning to believe that a lot of these so called "Tankers" don't really get the concept.

 

It seems like they want to win, until the losing starts. Then they want to tank. It's like they are fine with winning, until it interferes with their draft picks.

 

I was of the mind that most "Tankers" never played sports. So they don't understand the concept of a team. Now I think it's just nerds who like the draft more than the actual games.

 

I just can't believe anyone that has played an organized sport would ever advocate tanking.

I’ll try one last time and then I don’t think I’ll ever mention it again. I don’t think you get tanking either and what @rayzor said in the post you quoted isn’t it either.

First, it’s not once you stop winning you go into tank mode. That’s just when people in here know we aren’t making the playoffs so they root for a better pick. Sometimes it could have made a difference like 2021’s draft where us beating Haskins dropped us from 3rd to 8th. Yeah, we got Horn, but like Miami did, they used one of the 3 firsts they got from SF to move back up and get Waddle. If we lost that game, we could have had Horn and another 1st instead of just Horn.

Second, not sure about the others but I played sports (only through HS because frankly I went to a D1 school with friends on the OL who made me feel small) and I coached a bunch of youth sports (won a few championships too). Those aren’t in the same world as the NFL. It’s honestly silly of you to even think a multi-billion dollar business is remotely like organized sports. There are typically no drafts or drafts based on picking out of a hat. You can’t tank a youth sport because you don’t get better draft slots and trading Jimmy doesn’t get you another 2nd round pick.

Last, I have no problem discussing my 2020 tank plan. ESPN even had an article about how our 2020 team had the most turnover by far and we had preseason rankings all around the bottom. We lost Luke, Cam, Bradberry and Others and we had an entirely new staff. It was easy to see that we weren’t a playoff team. Brady in Tampa and Brees in NO was a recipe for two teams in our division being in the playoffs and if you looked ahead, you saw a huge opportunity to be a top pick in the draft which had Lawrence and Fields while knowing that Brady, Brees and Ryan were going to be gone in 2-3 years. By the way, I was 100% right on that call and thankfully we finally got a solid rookie while the others are still looking.

2020 was the year to tank. Instead we signed a bunch of FAs and spent a ton of cap we could have rolled over. We also wouldn’t have thrown away picks on shitty QBs, CBs and maybe got more comp picks (lost a 3rd signing Teddy). The tank would have been to get as many picks and save as much cap space while letting Will Grier lead us to Trevor Lawrence. No idea if we could have gotten there or not but we owned the tiebreaker and worst case we get Horn and an extra 1st plus all the comp picks and cap space to rollover. Here’s a fun one for you. With all the extra cap space and the extra first from SF, we could have easily gotten AJ Brown or Tyreke Hill. Another bonus to the tank. Instead, we wasted a few years being mediocre and gave up a lot of picks in the process.

You can cry all you want but sacrificing a few wins in 2020 (all the young guys and rookies are still playing hard) would have us being a much more talented team right now even with the trade up for Young. That’s tanking, not hoping for a better draft pick in week 14 or asking players to not play hard.

[CamWhoaaCam]

You only tank when you have nothing to play for.

 

We had something to play for point blank.

 

 

[ForJimmy]

13 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

You only tank when you have nothing to play for.

 

We had something to play for point blank.

 

 

True.  Plus Wilks was coaching for a job.  There is no way he was going to tank after the crap that happened to him in ARZ.  

[WhoKnows]

22 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

True.  Plus Wilks was coaching for a job.  There is no way he was going to tank after the crap that happened to him in ARZ.  

There is no way to tank at that point. Tanking <> telling players to lose. When you start your season with Curtis Painter or Weinke or Clausen without even signing a Teddy Two Gloves, you are tanking.

Although, had we really wanted to tank last year, we should have just kept Rhule.  That’s equivalent to a team with Clausen at the helm.

[Gerry Green]

3 hours ago, Green-Ghost said:

I will admit,  I am excited about this Upcoming season.  I think Young will be elite.  

 

I think if we can get half the folks who are still stuck living in the past to join us. This place just might be bearable again. 

 

The future is brighter than it's been in a long while. And we have folks missing it because they are unhappy about something or another. Oh well, more room on the train for the rest of us.

[Gerry Green]

1 hour ago, WhoKnows said:

I’ll try one last time and then I don’t think I’ll ever mention it again. I don’t think you get tanking either and what @rayzor said in the post you quoted isn’t it either.

First, it’s not once you stop winning you go into tank mode. That’s just when people in here know we aren’t making the playoffs so they root for a better pick. Sometimes it could have made a difference like 2021’s draft where us beating Haskins dropped us from 3rd to 8th. Yeah, we got Horn, but like Miami did, they used one of the 3 firsts they got from SF to move back up and get Waddle. If we lost that game, we could have had Horn and another 1st instead of just Horn.

Second, not sure about the others but I played sports (only through HS because frankly I went to a D1 school with friends on the OL who made me feel small) and I coached a bunch of youth sports (won a few championships too). Those aren’t in the same world as the NFL. It’s honestly silly of you to even think a multi-billion dollar business is remotely like organized sports. There are typically no drafts or drafts based on picking out of a hat. You can’t tank a youth sport because you don’t get better draft slots and trading Jimmy doesn’t get you another 2nd round pick.

Last, I have no problem discussing my 2020 tank plan. ESPN even had an article about how our 2020 team had the most turnover by far and we had preseason rankings all around the bottom. We lost Luke, Cam, Bradberry and Others and we had an entirely new staff. It was easy to see that we weren’t a playoff team. Brady in Tampa and Brees in NO was a recipe for two teams in our division being in the playoffs and if you looked ahead, you saw a huge opportunity to be a top pick in the draft which had Lawrence and Fields while knowing that Brady, Brees and Ryan were going to be gone in 2-3 years. By the way, I was 100% right on that call and thankfully we finally got a solid rookie while the others are still looking.

2020 was the year to tank. Instead we signed a bunch of FAs and spent a ton of cap we could have rolled over. We also wouldn’t have thrown away picks on shitty QBs, CBs and maybe got more comp picks (lost a 3rd signing Teddy). The tank would have been to get as many picks and save as much cap space while letting Will Grier lead us to Trevor Lawrence. No idea if we could have gotten there or not but we owned the tiebreaker and worst case we get Horn and an extra 1st plus all the comp picks and cap space to rollover. Here’s a fun one for you. With all the extra cap space and the extra first from SF, we could have easily gotten AJ Brown or Tyreke Hill. Another bonus to the tank. Instead, we wasted a few years being mediocre and gave up a lot of picks in the process.

You can cry all you want but sacrificing a few wins in 2020 (all the young guys and rookies are still playing hard) would have us being a much more talented team right now even with the trade up for Young. That’s tanking, not hoping for a better draft pick in week 14 or asking players to not play hard.

 

I'm sure that all makes perfect sense. But I ain't reading all that just to learn there is a time and place to tank. Guess what? There is no proper place, nor is there a proper time. 

 

Tanking is basically fan fiction. Armchair GMs are never wrong, hindsight is always 20-20, and woulda-coulda-shoulda is a fools errand,

 

I just wish folks would stop living in fear of the past. Cuz the future is looking pretty good from where I'm sitting.

[Davidson Deac II]

Has any team that was reasonably assumed to have tanked ever won a Superbowl?  

The Dolphins probably tanked, and it hasn't done much good.   The Eagles coach may have tanked (and did get fired). I suppose you could say they made the SB, although they made it with a second-round pick at qb.   

Edited May 10, 2023 by Davidson Deac II