The question of the day: is Derrick Brown good, elite, or fine?

[Khyber53]

He's solid, if nothing else and that can be worth a lot of money in the NFL. I'm just wondering how the shift to a 3-4 defense is going to affect him. Will we try and use him as a nose tackle or move him to one of the hands in the dirt ends? If at end, which side and which OLB will be generally working with him.

How will he take to the new DC's approach? Can he take on new concepts and a totally different role from the one he had in the Snowjob powderpuff defense? 

We aren't going to know until the second or third game in September.

I will say that the young man has held a starting spot on an NFL team and he's done that while we brought in both vets and new guys who would love to have that role. He's put in the work, he's garnered attention from other teams in the league and we really have no idea how much other teams we've played have had to scheme to keep him off of their QBs and out of the rushing lanes.

I hope he can blossom in the new set up. There's something about him that makes me think we haven't seen his best stuff yet.

[WhoKnows]

10 hours ago, JawnyBlaze said:

There isn’t a huge difference between 12 and 7 when talking about whether a position is drafted at that spot or not. No position is “not good value” at 7 but “good value” at 12. Ngata had 32 sacks in 12 years. He wasn’t a sack guy.  I respect your opinion, but I greatly disagree that sacks are needed or even a good indicator of contribution or value at that position.  Brown had been improving every year and started out well too. He’s not far off of Vea, if less at all (I’d have to watch more of Vea to give a strong opinion).  And 5 sacks, 6 sacks, these are not significant numbers. For a position where sacks are tertiary at best, you have to judge based on how they disrupt the offense as a whole, not whether they get a sack every few games or not. It’s like saying a WR who gets 1300 receiving yards and 300 rushing yards is worth #7 but not a WR that gets 1300 receiving yards and 50 rushing yards. 

We’re splitting some hairs but IMHO, the pass rush does move a DT into elite zone. None of these guys are in the Donald or even Short, in his prime, category, but going 7th or even 12th means you better be pro bowl material if you aren’t racking up sacks. I point out the higher sack years because that shows me that Vea and Ngata did get enough pressure on QBs to get some luck and make a bunch of sacks some years. 5-6 is a very good DT sack year especially to 300+ guys.

[Loyalty4Life]

Steve Smith on his podcast talked about about how badly Rhule used Brown.   That he was putting a round peg into a square hole.  Brown was asked to lose weight and play different techniques than his bread and butter.

 

[Icege]

Dude is a very good player and should be paid like a top 10 DT

[JawnyBlaze]

26 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Steve Smith on his podcast talked about about how badly Rhule used Brown.   That he was putting a round peg into a square hole.  Brown was asked to lose weight and play different techniques than his bread and butter.

 

Yea I appreciated that segment, discussing the roles of guys like Brown and Star and how losing Star negated Short’s ability to do what he was best at.  For the gamers out there, Brown is a tank and guys like Short and Donald are dps. Dps ain’t gonna do much without the tank to give them the opportunity to do their damage heh

[JawnyBlaze]

31 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

We’re splitting some hairs but IMHO, the pass rush does move a DT into elite zone. None of these guys are in the Donald or even Short, in his prime, category, but going 7th or even 12th means you better be pro bowl material if you aren’t racking up sacks. I point out the higher sack years because that shows me that Vea and Ngata did get enough pressure on QBs to get some luck and make a bunch of sacks some years. 5-6 is a very good DT sack year especially to 300+ guys.

Last year Brown was pro bowl material though. Best DT in the league aside from Donald, imo. Being on a bad team and not winning the popularity contest doesn’t diminish the level he played at. The first two years I’d say he was very good to great at times. Last year he was elite. 

[WhoKnows]

30 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Steve Smith on his podcast talked about about how badly Rhule used Brown.   That he was putting a round peg into a square hole.  Brown was asked to lose weight and play different techniques than his bread and butter.

 

I’ll be honest, it will be nice when Rhule isn’t blamed for everything. He’s gone. Brown showed promise his rookie year and played terrible in 2021. He was blocked by 1 OL all the time and he wasn’t winning those 1 on 1s. Had nothing to do with scheme or coaches, just not beating the guy in front of him. He looked much better in 2022 even with Rhule offseason and first 5 games. Personally, I felt like he just looked like a different player effort wise last year and that clearly lead to better results.

[electro's horse]

14 hours ago, amcoolio said:

Whatever he is, he's better than Isaiah Simmons, who had his option declined. Remember the fights from the internet warriors here when we passed on Simmons for Brown?

which doesn't make any sense because simmons has really started putting it together the past 2 years. 

[WhoKnows]

8 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

Last year Brown was pro bowl material though. Best DT in the league aside from Donald, imo. Being on a bad team and not winning the popularity contest doesn’t diminish the level he played at. The first two years I’d say he was very good to great at times. Last year he was elite. 

Sorry, but that’s way too rosy IMHO. I can’t say he was the best DT aside from Donald. I’d put him top 10 in 2022, but he needs to do that consistently. Also, saying he was good to great in 2021 is just being a homer. He had a terrible sophomore slump and he was not disruptive at all. PJ Walker, according to Mahomes, threw the best pass of the year last year. Every player makes a good play here and there but Brown had a down year in 2021. It was a big topic of discussion with many people throwing out the bust label. 2022 was completely opposite but it doesn’t mean 2021 didn’t happen. Here’s a link about his improvement from 2021 to 2022 and it starts: “With two mediocre seasons behind him” and he went from a 64 to 84 in PFF ranking. 64 is just above bad (50s) and well below elite (mid 80s/90+), kind of below average. 70s are average to above average/good.

[WhoKnows]

20 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

which doesn't make any sense because simmons has really started putting it together the past 2 years. 

Contracts have been going up a lot. The 5th year option is guaranteed and it’s not as cheap anymore, especially for a top 10 pick. Simmons may be playing better but as a LB, that 5th year option may be pricy, especially if guaranteed. I don’t think ILB is a separate class from OLB/edge rusher so probably not cost effective for interior folks.

[panthers55]

On 5/2/2023 at 10:08 AM, Varking said:

Depends on what you want out of your defensive tackle. Take up space, eat blockers and make a play against the run? He’s ideal. Want him to sack the QB? You can’t ignore his lack of sacks and thus he’s almost through his rookie contract and has how many sacks in his career?

He gets double teamed on many plays and from what I have seen is more of a 2 gap space eater than a 1 gap rusher. Hence why he doesn't get a ton of sacks. To me our defense was set up to rush from the edge and sent linebackers and  safeties to blitz last year. Under snow we played a ton of 3 man rushes with 8 in the secondary how exactly would Brown pile up a bunch of sacks? To me it is about how we used Brown not about his abilities.

[panthers55]

27 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

I’ll be honest, it will be nice when Rhule isn’t blamed for everything. He’s gone. Brown showed promise his rookie year and played terrible in 2021. He was blocked by 1 OL all the time and he wasn’t winning those 1 on 1s. Had nothing to do with scheme or coaches, just not beating the guy in front of him. He looked much better in 2022 even with Rhule offseason and first 5 games. Personally, I felt like he just looked like a different player effort wise last year and that clearly lead to better results.

Don't agree at all. How many times did Snow rush only 3  in pass defense. He was doubled all the time. When we were getting gashed by the run all the time what did you think they told Brown? Focus on getting to the quarterback or focus on the run first and then worry about the pass versus Burns for example  who always went wide to go for the sack. Brown has obviously improved but his 2022 was also influenced by a difference DC and scheme. So yeah it was scheme and what he was asked to do.

[pantherclaw]

Basically, Rhule and Snow tried to turn him into a player he isn't.  Which is where the failure rests. 

Once they let him get back to what he does best, he's bordline elite already. 

Let's see how he does in the new defensive scheme. 

[rayzor]

good trending towards elite.

i think we see the elite this year.

we'll be amazed at how much better he does with someone who knows how to best use him.