E.Brown evaluation....

[frash.exe]

Yeah, that's almost as crazy as thinking that a midget WR could ever be the best play maker on the team.

you really seem to love masking exceptions as rules

name me 5 game breaking WRs 5'9'' or shorter and less than 190 lbs.

[rayzor]

you know this really sounds like you're trying to play the "what's your solution" game, and then you're going to go at length to try and justify why giving up a valuable first round pick this year for a player about 30 other teams didn't care enough about to select him with their first chance and whom hasn't made much of a ripple is a better idea than grabbing a free agent such as Chris Canty, assuming Everette Brown is destined to grow into some inpenetrable force on the defensive line in the coming years.

holy run-on sentences, batman!

[OneBadassCat]

When will Charles Johnson finally be a dominant force at DE? Will he ever?

[mmmbeans]

lol while supporting the idea to replace peppers with a midget DE whose ideal fit at the pro level would be at OLB.

i don't know what you are arguing anymore. you'd rather have chris canty than everette brown as a RDE in our system? Right on. I couldn't disagree more.

[klumme]

When will Charles Johnson finally be a dominant force at DE? Will he ever?

Maybe not a dominant force but he he has 16 QB hurries on the year.. That is second most on the team only behind Brayton and that is in half the snaps.

I have said it before and I will say it again... Charles Johnson it the best DE on our team.

[monstercat]

you really seem to love masking exceptions as rules

name me 5 game breaking WRs 5'9'' or shorter and less than 190 lbs.

Ask the Colts if it's an exception to the rule that a smallish DE can be great in the NFL. And what about Elvis Dumerville (sp?), he's only about 5'11" and he's tearing it up right now. Heck, Jason Taylor may be taller than Brown, but he's no heavier than Brown is and he has been good as a DE and an OLB, so this is not something that's unprecedented at all. My point was that you're being short sighted (pardon the pun) if you're just going to judge Brown on his size and not his play.

[frash.exe]

Ask the Colts if it's an exception to the rule that a smallish DE can be great in the NFL. And what about Elvis Dumerville (sp?), he's only about 5'11" and he's tearing it up right now. Heck, Jason Taylor may be taller than Brown, but he's no heavier than Brown is and he has been good as a DE and an OLB, so this is not something that's unprecedented at all. My point was that you're being short sighted (pardon the pun) if you're just going to judge Brown on his size and not his play.

While I'm there I'll ask the colts and their lollipop guild defensive line why they've always sucked at stopping the run

and dumervil's only tearing it up more then ever because they moved him off the line and at olb which he obviously is better at playing

[Lumps]

yea find out how many hurries he has, he is always in the face of the QB , he has disrupted numerous plays for the opposing offense.

Remember hes a rookie, under Fox nonetheless. He can only get better.

Charles Johnson was a lot smaller/less aware , now look at him. Give him the off season with the NFL staff to make him stronger and faster. Next year would be the time for a real evaluation given he gets playing time.

[SOJA]

I feel like Brown would thrive in a 3-4 as a pass rush specialist (unlike Peppers I doubt he could cover vary well but who knows), however if he adds some muscle he may become the Dwight Freeney (spelling?) type player we need

[pantherclaw]

usually when you trade a future first round pick in a present draft, you're trying to get someone who can make an immediate impact for you (unless it's for a QB).

i'm sorry but Brown hasn't provided that.

He has made an immediate impact since the beginning of the season. I think what you are saying, is you had the overblown expectations of his starting this year.

[Gman was right]

He was a waste of a top ten pick

[Fiz]

He has made an immediate impact since the beginning of the season.

pebbles thrown into lakes make impacts too

[mmmbeans]

pebbles thrown into lakes make impacts too

that's beautiful.

[frash.exe]

I had a feeling that was what you were thinking. I was actually just genuinely interested in what you would have done. I get so tired of people trying to set each other up, to then try to counter everything they say. I prefer discussions, ones which actually discuss things, otherwise every thread descends into bravado on who is the best internet tough guy.

Canty is someone I wanted us to bring in. As beans aluded to, I would have slid him inside though he just does not have the explosion and moves to rush the QB from DE. Mind you a combination of Brayton, Lewis, Kemo (at the time), Canty would have been a dominant four against the run, just a bit embarressing against the pass.

I honestly don't think that would've been the right thing to do nor do I approve of the Giants' decision to move him inside, since the DEs only play one gap in Dallas, it's not like NE where each lineman plays two. He should be on the outside, but the ends are stacked in NY.

He is not a 3-4 OLB. That is why he slipped to where he did. With the amount of teams converting to the 3-4, he 'should' have gone earlier. Fortunately most saw him as what he is - a dominant 4-3 pass rushing end. I think his skill set is his motor and body quickness, which is much more effective at DE, as the OT has less time to react. Most 3-4 OLBs are more powerful guys, or pure speed guys, not many utilise their body form and technique to get past blocker. Brown is quick, but not Dumervil quick. He is powerful, but not Ware powerful. He is in the middle and with decent technique, being on the line gives him the better chance of beating blockers.

so he may work out to master half the game. I thought before the draft he was a good prospect as well but not one I'd trade a future first for. With CBA problems on the horizon and Free agents that may or may not have to stay with their teams, everybody here is going to wish we still had that first when April gets around.

I still love the Brown pick up. He is the kind of character you build a roster on. In 5 years he will at the least be our new Rucker, best case is a Mathis/Freeney type, but that is more wishful thinking. This is of course, my opinion.

and it's also possible he ends up being nothing more than a situational pass rusher. As far as Mathis and Freeney go, yes, they can make all the moves they want to rush the QB, however, their ability against the run is slacking, and it's partly because their undersized.

So, with me honestly intruiged about how you would have gone about things. What would you have done. You are letting Pep go, so in theory you need to replace a DE and have some cap room to pick up a max of two cheap players. What is your plan of action?

Canty plus a situational FA pass rusher, of which there were several in free agency. If you wanted a little more, I could see working a less costly trade for someone with more upside, but Peppers hasn't really been a difference maker against good competition this year. And you would've saved a lot of money still.