To the Bryce Young Haters...

[PootieNunu]

2 minutes ago, Bama Panther said:

If your argument is that the mental side can be coached, why have more QBs with the physical traits not had success? Josh Allen is really an anomaly. There have been far more guys with the physical traits but lacking the mental aspect bust than they have turned into a QB like Josh Allen.

Are you saying that all of those busts simply had professional coaching staffs who just weren’t able to coach up the mental side? Wouldn’t the simplest explanation be that maybe it is not so easy to coach up the mental side?

Josh Allen is not lacking the mental aspect, the dude scored in the 90s on s2. 

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, ladypanther said:

Josh Allen was an outlier.

We are banking on young to be an outlier 

[tukafan21]

1 minute ago, Bama Panther said:

If your argument is that the mental side can be coached, why have more QBs with the physical traits not had success? Josh Allen is really an anomaly. There have been far more guys with the physical traits but lacking the mental aspect bust than they have turned into a QB like Josh Allen.

Are you saying that all of those busts simply had professional coaching staffs who just weren’t able to coach up the mental side? Wouldn’t the simplest explanation be that maybe it is not so easy to coach up the mental side?

What other players have lacked physical traits but been superior mental prospects that have panned out despite their physical limitations?

Isn't it interesting that the last of those type of players, also was at Alabama in Mac Jones and now there are rumors that the Patriots are ready to move on from him because he isn't good enough.

All the mental attributes in the world can't help if you don't have the physical ability to get it done either.

It's a two way street

I just think guys like Stroud and AR have enough physical abilities that they're going to end up as better QB's in the league than Young will be.  I fully understand why Young is considered a top prospect, I just don't think there is any chance in hell that he is going to hold up physically in the league.

As I've said too many times on here, it's all a big balancing act of the positives and negatives, and I just think Bryce's negatives outweigh his positives, more so than the other top prospects in this years QB class.

[Varking]

Why don’t you just DM them?

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

We are banking on young to be an outlier 

We're more than banking an outlier, we're banking on him becoming the greatest small QB of all time given how much smaller he is than the other very few successful small QB's, all of whom were NOT the #1 pick in the draft, let alone giving up a haul to take them.

Brees and Wilson are the two best small QB's of all time and they were never considered first round prospects.

But sure, let's go with a guy significantly smaller than either of them, particularly from a frame standpoint, with the #1 pick in the draft after trading 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a #1 WR for that pick, that makes sense.

[ladypanther]

22 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

It's different taking a guy who has shown 3 years in the league of poor decision making and a destroyed confidence compared to a kid coming out of college fresh.

Look at someone like Josh Allen who had those same question marks coming out of school and he got coached up in those areas.

It more comes down to if you trust your coaches enough to coach them up.

Darnold was saddled with the worst coaching staff imaginable in NY and had a terrible set here in Carolina as well.  This current coaching staff is built to coach up a young QB's mental side of the game, which is why I never understood trading up to take a QB whose biggest areas of concern were physically, not mental.

Josh Allen was an outlier.

[tukafan21]

Bottom line is this...

I'm fully against drafting Young at #1 given what we gave up to get the pick

I will be fully on board with Young once he's drafted

I will not be happy, nor will I brag, about being right about him in 3-5 years when we decline his 5th year option because he can't stay healthy for more than half of a season at a time.

All my attacks on Young's prospects will stop the second the pick is announced, he's not a Panther yet so I'll voice my concerns about drafting him, once he's a Panther, I'll defend him till I die to anyone who talks poo about him as he'll be one of us then.

Hell... I'll still defend Cam's passing ability in arguments with my Lions friends when we get into our inevitable Cam vs Stafford debates.  Despite the fact that I know he never was that great of a passer, but he's my QB, so I'll defend him to the end of the earth.

[Mother Grabber]

6 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

We're more than banking an outlier, we're banking on him becoming the greatest small QB of all time given how much smaller he is than the other very few successful small QB's, all of whom were NOT the #1 pick in the draft, let alone giving up a haul to take them.

Brees and Wilson are the two best small QB's of all time and they were never considered first round prospects.

But sure, let's go with a guy significantly smaller than either of them, particularly from a frame standpoint, with the #1 pick in the draft after trading 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a #1 WR for that pick, that makes sense.

if a young Brees or Wilson were in this draft, would you take him at 1 knowing what he’d become? i sure af would.

btw Brees was taken just outside the first round

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, ladypanther said:

Josh Allen was an outlier.

Okay, how about Patrick Mahomes?

This was a draft analysis of his weaknesses, sure sounds like an Anthony Richardson to me.  Good thing KC didn't pass on him because you can't coach up decision making and mechanical issues.

You can literally do it with every QB drafted, some work out, some don't.  You're making this into a single issue decision with that issue being "are they NFL ready from a mental side of things"

Which in reality, is probably the worst single issue thing to base it on, as the overwhelming majority of QB's take time to grow into that.  More successful QB's had the physical traits but made poor decisions in college vs being mentally sound in college but lacking the elite physical traits.

No, not all of them get coached up and are successful, but I think it's a significantly better path to being successful when you're coaching up someone with elite physical characteristics as opposed to hoping someone else's elite mental game can overcome significant physical limitations.

[tukafan21]

1 minute ago, Mother Grabber said:

if a young Brees or Wilson were in this draft, would you take him at 1 knowing what he’d become? i sure af would.

btw Brees was taken just outside the first round

Brees yes, dude is one of the top 10 QB's of all time

Wilson... probably yes, but this last year kinda threw a lot into question about him and it makes me wonder how much of his Seattle success was due to Pete.

But asking if you'd take a HOF QB #1 knowing how their career would turn out over guys who haven't even been drafted yet is a dumb question.

It's like saying "would you go take Michael Jordan #1 over Wemby in the draft this year knowing what he'd become"

No poo, of course you would take a known HOF career over any unknown.

[Bama Panther]

12 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

Josh Allen is not lacking the mental aspect, the dude scored in the 90s on s2. 

Which really makes my point even more. The question then becomes, and the question I am asking is, “why do so many physical traits guys who coaches try to coach up on the mental side bust”? May suggest the mental side is not so easy to coach up, especially at NFL speeds. 

[Mother Grabber]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

Brees yes, dude is one of the top 10 QB's of all time

Wilson... probably yes, but this last year kinda threw a lot into question about him and it makes me wonder how much of his Seattle success was due to Pete.

But asking if you'd take a HOF QB #1 knowing how their career would turn out over guys who haven't even been drafted yet is a dumb question.

It's like saying "would you go take Michael Jordan #1 over Wemby in the draft this year knowing what he'd become"

No poo, of course you would take a known HOF career over any unknown.

so the idea that they weren’t considered 1st round talent pre-draft is irrelevant. if you think you have a future great, you take him.

[tukafan21]

6 minutes ago, Mother Grabber said:

so the idea that they weren’t considered 1st round talent pre-draft is irrelevant. if you think you have a future great, you take him.

Such an asinine statement

If anyone thought they would become what they turned out to be, both would be drafted WAY higher than they did.  Trying to make an argument on players that already have had HOF careers as to why taking a small QB makes sense, is just so illogical that I am having trouble making sense of what your point with it even is.

It would be like trying to say people screwed up by not taking Brady because of what he turned out to be.  Dude fell to the 6th round, clearly nobody thought he'd be a legit starting QB, let alone the GOAT.

I've said time and time again, I do not think Young has a great future because I don't think he can stay healthy, so that's why I wouldn't take him.

Edited April 25, 2023 by tukafan21

[Proudiddy]

I will hope for the best, but I just don't see it.  I called Luke and Cam before we ever even made those picks and believed 1000% when I called those that they would be the transcendent, generational talents that they were.  I also called busts like Butler, KB, etc.  I just don't see it in Young.  I don't believe in the pick.  There are a lot of positives about his game, but there also, imo, an equal amount of holes in it, and the height is something that will have to be schemed around and the fact that the stats lay out that he struggles to make one of the most important throws in pro football with any consistency, and I just think there is huge bust potential.  

But, we'll see...  *shrugs*