Person details "how we got here"

[Mr. Scot]

In his latest Athletic article, Joe Person charts the path for how we got from "there to here" in this year's draft evaluations.

As you might expect, a fair amount of this particular writing reviews events covered previously, but I've highlighted some particular areas of interest along the way.

Starting with...

Oct. 20, 2022

The Christian McCaffrey trade to San Francisco wasn’t the Panthers’ first after they fired Matt Rhule following a 1-4 start and replaced him with defensive assistant Steve Wilks. After Robbie Anderson got in an assistant’s face in Los Angeles during Wilks’ first game as interim head coach, Fitterer somehow finagled two late-round picks out of Arizona for the mercurial, overpaid receiver.

But the McCaffrey deal was the biggie — a move that sent the Panthers’ best player to a team with Super Bowl aspirations near where he played his college ball at Stanford. And though the Panthers didn’t receive the first-round pick they were seeking for McCaffrey, they received a sizable haul from the 49ers for the versatile running back — second-, third- and fourth-round picks in 2023 and a fifth in 2024.

- I'd forgotten about the sideline thing. Anderson really did turn into a problem child while he was here. I'm still amazed that we got something in return for him, especially given just how little he contributed to the Cardinals after he got there.

...

With McCaffrey exiting on the heels of Anderson, it was fair to question whether the Panthers — owners of the league’s worst record (1-5) and the 32nd-ranked offense — were tanking to get in position for a franchise quarterback.

Wilks, the former Arizona head coach who would fire several of Rhule’s assistants during his tenure as the Panthers’ interim coach, was adamant there would be no tank on his watch.

- Fitterer confirmed the "no tanking" mindset later on.

“Once you know you’re not gonna be in the top five, it’s, ‘OK, how we gonna get there?’” Fitterer told The Athletic at the NFL owners’ meetings last month. “But let’s worry about that later. Let’s win now.”

...

Feb. 27, 2023

The Bears arrived at the combine ready to take offers for the No. 1 pick. While the rest of the team’s contingent stayed at the busy JW Marriott in downtown Indianapolis, general manager Ryan Poles tried to keep a lower profile with a suite at the Hyatt. That’s where he and Fitterer had their first trade talks during a 20-minute, Monday night meeting at the start of combine week.

Poles told Fitterer what the Bears were looking for, and Fitterer figured immediately the Panthers would have to include a player in order to jump up eight spots from 9.

- We've seen the names of the players that were discussed, but while reiterating that they didn't really want to trade anybody, Fitterer expresses how they settled on Moore.

“There were certain players that we never really wanted to trade,” Fitterer said. “It’s so hard to replace a Derrick Brown or Brian Burns, a pass rusher (and) an interior, dominant young player on a (first) contract. DJ, we didn’t want to move, either. But it’s a little bit easier to replace a receiver than it is a pass rusher or a three-tech.”

...

March 7, 2023

After leaving Indianapolis without a deal, the two GMs agreed to check in the following week. Poles was trying to pull off two trades to maximize the return. He wanted to switch places with Houston, which has the second pick, and then move from 2 to 9. But Texans general manager Nick Caserio wasn’t committing.

When Fitterer called Poles on March 7 while driving to his daughter’s high school soccer game in south Charlotte, the Bears GM encouraged Fitterer to make his move.

“He’s like, ‘Yeah, if you want to jump in on this, make an offer,’” Fitterer said.

The two talked throughout the Marvin Ridge-Covenant Day soccer game, with Fitterer also checking in with Tepper. By the following evening, the framework of the deal was in place.

- Still wonder how that sat with Fitterer's wife and daughter

...

March 10, 2023

Rumblings about a Panthers-Bears trade started surfacing Friday afternoon. It was official by happy hour: The Panthers would send Moore and four picks — two first-rounders and two seconds — to Chicago for the opportunity to pick first, which they had last done in 2011 when they drafted Cam Newton.

The Panthers’ decision-makers — including Reich, assistant general manager Dan Morgan and VP of football administration Samir Suleiman — celebrated in Fitterer’s office. It didn’t last long: They had to call Moore and tell him he was going to Chicago

“You go get the guy that you want. If you have conviction on a guy, you go get him. It’s pretty simple that way,” Fitterer told reporters at the combine when asked about the advantages in moving up for a quarterback.

- People have made a lot of Fitterer saying "the guy", treating that as proof that they only have one player in mind. It wasn't. He was answering a general question with a general answer. As Person confirms below, it wasn't just one guy at that time.

...

March 23, 2023

When they were willing to go up to 2 when a Chicago-Houston-Carolina trade scenario was being discussed, the Panthers were comfortable with two quarterbacks, believed to be Stroud and Young.

It’s hard to pinpoint the exact day when they began focusing solely on Young. But high-ranking officials with other NFL teams believe the Panthers began to lock in on him after going to the pro days for all four quarterbacks: Young, Stroud, Florida’s Anthony Richardson and Kentucky’s Will Levis.

- Again, people had been thinking that the decision was already made early on, but Person says nothing was really "official" before the pro day tour. It appears that's when things came into focus.

...

April 18, 2023

Fitterer, Morgan and college scouting director Cole Spencer conducted their pre-draft news conference on the same day the Panthers wrapped up their final pre-draft visits with the top quarterbacks by hosting Stroud and Levis. Fitterer maintained the Panthers still had not narrowed their list.

“This is a big decision for the organization,” he said. “We don’t want to lock on something early on just to decide that’s our guy. We want to keep this process open all the way through.”

- This has been stated and restated, and yes I think they believe it.

Person does speculate that Fitterer "offered a clue" by talking so much about Bryce Young, but I still don't think you can say that given that nearly every question was basically about Young. That's basically confirmation bias talking. What else was he supposed to do?

...

And so here we are, just a few days from seeing how the whole story turns out.

Bottom Line: It took a lot of work to get here. Don't let that work become a waste.

Get it right.

[Krovvy]

[rayzor]

Yes, they were officially "keeping their options open" but they knew after the proday tour. 

They've known before that. Maybe not officially, but it's really only ever been Young since they moved to the 1, but even before then it was only 2 they were really interested in. 

I think the way it's looking, Stroud may not have the market many of us "including myself" thought he had. Lots to like, but for whatever reasons teams are having a hard time choosing him also their franchise guy. Could be a boas against QBs from OSU, the S2 scores, the reports of him being not the ideal leader type personality you'd want (too focused on self. "I've got to prove myself?", "how is this going to make me look?", etc), thought he looked better than he actually is because of his situation....these are all things I e heard brought up so it could be any or all of them. 

Like I've said, I still think he'll be good and part of me hopes he goes to the falcons just to make things interesting for the next decade, but Young's whole package, they feel, way more than makes up for his size issues. He's like having an OC on the field with eyes in the sky while the play is going on. Between snaps he's like Kuechly in the ability to diagnose what the other team is going to do, and he's like Brees in the preparation for games.

Worry about his size if you want, but that's just one of those things you're going to just have to deal with and get over if you want to enjoy being a panthers fan for the next decade.

[ladypanther]

$2 a month is a nice deal...worth the price.

Thanks for posting @Mr. Scot...had not seen that yet.

[TheSpecialJuan]

one of Joe's better articles 

[Wolfcop]

I have a sub and it’s well worth the price. 

[Bluetooth]

8 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

In his latest Athletic article, Joe Person charts the path for how we got from "there to here" in this year's draft evaluations.

 

Bottom Line: It took a lot of work to get here. Don't let that work become a waste.

Get it right.

By choosing the opposite QB Mr.Scot wants...

[KatsAzz]

2 hours ago, rayzor said:

Yes, they were officially "keeping their options open" but they knew after the proday tour. 

They've known before that. Maybe not officially, but it's really only ever been Young since they moved to the 1, but even before then it was only 2 they were really interested in. 

I think the way it's looking, Stroud may not have the market many of us "including myself" thought he had. Lots to like, but for whatever reasons teams are having a hard time choosing him also their franchise guy. Could be a boas against QBs from OSU, the S2 scores, the reports of him being not the ideal leader type personality you'd want (too focused on self. "I've got to prove myself?", "how is this going to make me look?", etc), thought he looked better than he actually is because of his situation....these are all things I e heard brought up so it could be any or all of them. 

Like I've said, I still think he'll be good and part of me hopes he goes to the falcons just to make things interesting for the next decade, but Young's whole package, they feel, way more than makes up for his size issues. He's like having an OC on the field with eyes in the sky while the play is going on. Between snaps he's like Kuechly in the ability to diagnose what the other team is going to do, and he's like Brees in the preparation for games.

Worry about his size if you want, but that's just one of those things you're going to just have to deal with and get over if you want to enjoy being a panthers fan for the next decade.

I noticed today that several top of the sports people were saying they thought Kentucky QB Will Levis would be selected in the draft before Ohio State QB C.J. Stroud.

[KatsAzz]

8 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

In his latest Athletic article, Joe Person charts the path for how we got from "there to here" in this year's draft evaluations.

As you might expect, a fair amount of this particular writing reviews events covered previously, but I've highlighted some particular areas of interest along the way.

Starting with...

Oct. 20, 2022

The Christian McCaffrey trade to San Francisco wasn’t the Panthers’ first after they fired Matt Rhule following a 1-4 start and replaced him with defensive assistant Steve Wilks. After Robbie Anderson got in an assistant’s face in Los Angeles during Wilks’ first game as interim head coach, Fitterer somehow finagled two late-round picks out of Arizona for the mercurial, overpaid receiver.

But the McCaffrey deal was the biggie — a move that sent the Panthers’ best player to a team with Super Bowl aspirations near where he played his college ball at Stanford. And though the Panthers didn’t receive the first-round pick they were seeking for McCaffrey, they received a sizable haul from the 49ers for the versatile running back — second-, third- and fourth-round picks in 2023 and a fifth in 2024.

- I'd forgotten about the sideline thing. Anderson really did turn into a problem child while he was here. I'm still amazed that we got something in return for him, especially given just how little he contributed to the Cardinals after he got there.

...

With McCaffrey exiting on the heels of Anderson, it was fair to question whether the Panthers — owners of the league’s worst record (1-5) and the 32nd-ranked offense — were tanking to get in position for a franchise quarterback.

Wilks, the former Arizona head coach who would fire several of Rhule’s assistants during his tenure as the Panthers’ interim coach, was adamant there would be no tank on his watch.

- Fitterer confirmed the "no tanking" mindset later on.

“Once you know you’re not gonna be in the top five, it’s, ‘OK, how we gonna get there?’” Fitterer told The Athletic at the NFL owners’ meetings last month. “But let’s worry about that later. Let’s win now.”

...

Feb. 27, 2023

The Bears arrived at the combine ready to take offers for the No. 1 pick. While the rest of the team’s contingent stayed at the busy JW Marriott in downtown Indianapolis, general manager Ryan Poles tried to keep a lower profile with a suite at the Hyatt. That’s where he and Fitterer had their first trade talks during a 20-minute, Monday night meeting at the start of combine week.

Poles told Fitterer what the Bears were looking for, and Fitterer figured immediately the Panthers would have to include a player in order to jump up eight spots from 9.

- We've seen the names of the players that were discussed, but while reiterating that they didn't really want to trade anybody, Fitterer expresses how they settled on Moore.

“There were certain players that we never really wanted to trade,” Fitterer said. “It’s so hard to replace a Derrick Brown or Brian Burns, a pass rusher (and) an interior, dominant young player on a (first) contract. DJ, we didn’t want to move, either. But it’s a little bit easier to replace a receiver than it is a pass rusher or a three-tech.”

...

March 7, 2023

After leaving Indianapolis without a deal, the two GMs agreed to check in the following week. Poles was trying to pull off two trades to maximize the return. He wanted to switch places with Houston, which has the second pick, and then move from 2 to 9. But Texans general manager Nick Caserio wasn’t committing.

When Fitterer called Poles on March 7 while driving to his daughter’s high school soccer game in south Charlotte, the Bears GM encouraged Fitterer to make his move.

“He’s like, ‘Yeah, if you want to jump in on this, make an offer,’” Fitterer said.

The two talked throughout the Marvin Ridge-Covenant Day soccer game, with Fitterer also checking in with Tepper. By the following evening, the framework of the deal was in place.

- Still wonder how that sat with Fitterer's wife and daughter

...

March 10, 2023

Rumblings about a Panthers-Bears trade started surfacing Friday afternoon. It was official by happy hour: The Panthers would send Moore and four picks — two first-rounders and two seconds — to Chicago for the opportunity to pick first, which they had last done in 2011 when they drafted Cam Newton.

The Panthers’ decision-makers — including Reich, assistant general manager Dan Morgan and VP of football administration Samir Suleiman — celebrated in Fitterer’s office. It didn’t last long: They had to call Moore and tell him he was going to Chicago

“You go get the guy that you want. If you have conviction on a guy, you go get him. It’s pretty simple that way,” Fitterer told reporters at the combine when asked about the advantages in moving up for a quarterback.

- People have made a lot of Fitterer saying "the guy", treating that as proof that they only have one player in mind. It wasn't. He was answering a general question with a general answer. As Person confirms below, it wasn't just one guy at that time.

...

March 23, 2023

When they were willing to go up to 2 when a Chicago-Houston-Carolina trade scenario was being discussed, the Panthers were comfortable with two quarterbacks, believed to be Stroud and Young.

It’s hard to pinpoint the exact day when they began focusing solely on Young. But high-ranking officials with other NFL teams believe the Panthers began to lock in on him after going to the pro days for all four quarterbacks: Young, Stroud, Florida’s Anthony Richardson and Kentucky’s Will Levis.

- Again, people had been thinking that the decision was already made early on, but Person says nothing was really "official" before the pro day tour. It appears that's when things came into focus.

...

April 18, 2023

Fitterer, Morgan and college scouting director Cole Spencer conducted their pre-draft news conference on the same day the Panthers wrapped up their final pre-draft visits with the top quarterbacks by hosting Stroud and Levis. Fitterer maintained the Panthers still had not narrowed their list.

“This is a big decision for the organization,” he said. “We don’t want to lock on something early on just to decide that’s our guy. We want to keep this process open all the way through.”

- This has been stated and restated, and yes I think they believe it.

Person does speculate that Fitterer "offered a clue" by talking so much about Bryce Young, but I still don't think you can say that given that nearly every question was basically about Young. That's basically confirmation bias talking. What else was he supposed to do?

...

And so here we are, just a few days from seeing how the whole story turns out.

Bottom Line: It took a lot of work to get here. Don't let that work become a waste.

Get it right.

Thanks. That was a well written and very informative article.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Bluetooth said:

By choosing the opposite QB Mr.Scot wants...

Nah

Young is everything I'd typically want in a quarterback, just with durability concerns because of his size.

Have to help either those concerns don't manifest into anything or we protect him well enough.

[rayzor]

1 hour ago, KatsAzz said:

I noticed today that several top of the sports people were saying they thought Kentucky QB Will Levis would be selected in the draft before Ohio State QB C.J. Stroud.

I have a feeling that's going to happen, not that it should. Levis is a perfect drunk Irsay pick. They talked him out of the coach he wanted. I don't think he lets them talk him out of the QB he wants. 

[KatsAzz]

12 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Nah

Young is everything I'd typically want in a quarterback, just with durability concerns because of his size.

Have to help either those concerns don't manifest into anything or we protect him well enough.

That is my exact feelings and outlook pertaining to Alabama QB Bryce Young..

[Panthera onca]

Mr. Scot, I don't think his wife and daughter care that he was working during the soccer game as long as he keeps banking those huge paychecks.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Panthera onca said:

Mr. Scot, I don't think his wife and daughter care that he was working during the soccer game as long as he keeps banking those huge paychecks.

Possible