For the Size Bros

[MHS831]

This article determines that smaller people (in terms of weight) are less prone to injury than larger players--here is part of the conclusion:

"Fielding a team of 195-pound offensive linemen is probably unwise, but focusing on players at the lower end of the weight range for their positions may offer teams some modest advantages when it comes to injury prevention. All else equal, if a team has a choice between a 180-pound defensive back and a 210-pounder, they may want to go for the lighter guy."

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/weight-and-injuries

Edited April 23, 2023 by MHS831

[MillionDollarCam]

9 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Did you know that AR, Levis, and Stroud also had shoulder injuries in college?  It is common for QBs. 

And I’d argue that two of those guys got hit a lot more than Young (AR and Levis) and I definitely saw Stroud take some hard hits (the Iowa game comes to mind).

The issue is this idea that Young’s size isn’t a concern and that him somehow not taking a bunch of huge hits eliminates the need for that concern.

As I mentioned previously that does absolutely nothing to alleviate the concern. I’d be more concerned now than what I was because you have a small framed QB that rarely takes hard hits.

At the end of the day (shoutout Matt Rhule), this conversation has come up hundreds of times in different threads and the result will always be the same. Young’s size is a concern, the Panthers just have to be comfortable enough with every other aspect of his game where they can look past that concern.

Nothing that anyone posts about Russell Wilson or from Alabama’s team doctors is going to eliminate the very valid FACT that Young would be the smallest starting QB in the NFL.

[MHS831]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

Durability I believe he said was clearly a concern. 

 

 

And it is for me as well, but I am not sure my concern is substantiated by research.  I doubt Reich would argue with team doctors who deal with this every day.  It is a visual that people accept as fact when there is not any research to support it (that I know of, at least).  It is an interesting debate, but I have yet to see the facts to support the position that a smaller QB is injured more easily.  QBs get injured--and their playing style and protection has more to do with it than the bigness of their torsos. 
 

[MHS831]

3 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

And I’d argue that two of those guys got hit a lot more than Young (AR and Levis) and I definitely saw Stroud take some hard hits (the Iowa game comes to mind).

]

You have a good point--playing style (those guys getting hit more than Young) is probably more of a factor than size--which is the point made by the OP.  The Bama Dr. is simply implying that Bryce's game minimizes the risk for injury because he processes quickly, is evasive, and throws it quickly.

I can tell you this--if we take Young, we are going to have one of the best OLs in football.

Edited April 23, 2023 by MHS831

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

And it is for me as well, but I am not sure my concern is substantiated by research.  I doubt Reich would argue with team doctors who deal with this every day.  It is a visual that people accept as fact when there is not any research to support it (that I know of, at least).  It is an interesting debate, but I have yet to see the facts to support the position that a smaller QB is injured more easily.  QBs get injured--and their playing style and protection has more to do with it than the bigness of their torsos. 
 

He elaborated with it’s an unknown because there aren’t many QBs his size. Mentioned smaller players like Marvin Harrison and Barry Sanders who were good at avoiding big hits and staying healthy. I am trying to find the actual video…

[MillionDollarCam]

9 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Don't let the facts smack your common sense in the ass, folks. 

This article determines that smaller people (in terms of weight) are less prone to injury than larger players--here is part of the conclusion:

"Fielding a team of 195-pound offensive linemen is probably unwise, but focusing on players at the lower end of the weight range for their positions may offer teams some modest advantages when it comes to injury prevention. All else equal, if a team has a choice between a 180-pound defensive back and a 210-pounder, they may want to go for the lighter guy."

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/weight-and-injuries

A major exception to the premise is that heavier running backs don’t get injured as much as their smaller counterparts… that’s partly because the larger running backs can take hits from 300 lb. linemen better than smaller running backs, the same goes with a QB.

In reality, heavier guys will get hurt more than smaller guys because they are asked to do a lot with more mass on their body, but that has absolutely nothing to do with being hit, it has to do with asking a 300 lb. guy to stop on a dime, pivot, and reverse back the opposite way to make a tackle while hoping he doesn’t tear every ligament.in his knee.

Edited April 23, 2023 by MillionDollarCam

[MillionDollarCam]

7 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

You have a good point--playing style (those guys getting hit more than Young) is probably more of a factor than size--which is the point made by the OP.  The Bama Dr. is simply implying that Bryce's game minimizes the risk for injury because he processes quickly, is evasive, and throws it quickly.

I can tell you this--if we take Young, we are going to have one of the best OLs in football.

That’s what I’m hoping for.

Both Young and Stroud have concerns. I just think it’s funny that some are trying to eliminate their concerns based on what so and so says.

If we’re being frank (no pun intended), Young is a midget (joking) and Stroud may be clinically retarded (joking). Nothing any one says can alleviate these concerns until we see both players suit up.

The Panthers and fans that are invested in the team just have to come to terms with what concern they can get over more. Young’s perceived side or Stroud’s perceived intelligence.

Edited April 23, 2023 by MillionDollarCam

[ForJimmy]

7 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

And it is for me as well, but I am not sure my concern is substantiated by research.  I doubt Reich would argue with team doctors who deal with this every day.  It is a visual that people accept as fact when there is not any research to support it (that I know of, at least).  It is an interesting debate, but I have yet to see the facts to support the position that a smaller QB is injured more easily.  QBs get injured--and their playing style and protection has more to do with it than the bigness of their torsos. 
 

https://www.espn.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/37574/height-not-top-concern-for-panthers-in-bryce-young-c-j-stroud-draft-debate?platform=amp
 

This article shows the elaboration and he even mentions how Bryce is good at limiting hits in the pocket.

[Varking]

28 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

You mean by saying something that would discredit him professionally and make a fool out of himself in the medical community?

Yeah, lying about Young would be so worth it.

He said something he can’t prove when it comes to Bryce. 

[MHS831]

8 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

Did you read your own article? A major exception to the premise is that heavier running backs don’t get injured as much as their smaller counterparts… that’s partly because the larger running backs can take hits from 300 lb. linemen better than smaller running backs, the same goes with a QB.

In reality, heavier guys will get hurt more than smaller guys because they are asked to do a lot with more mass on their body, but that has absolutely nothing to do with being hit, it has to do with asking a 300 lb. guy to stop on a dime, pivot, and reverse back the opposite way to make a tackle while hoping he doesn’t tear every ligament.in his knee.

The article makes distinctions about positions, and QB and RB are not really comparable.  A RB has a much shorter shelf life than a QB.  Running QBs do not last as long as pocket passers.  So there is a difference.  I have stated that style of play and protection play roles more than size.  I got mad when RR used to run CMC up the middle because I understand the physics.  I have even stated that if you draft AR you will get him for 8 years where if you take Young or Stroud you get a QB for 15 or more.  If Young starts running off tackle,  size will become an issue for many reasons. I was furious with RR for the way he used Cam and CMC--they were both put in position to be injured, and they were. 

I worry about his size, don't get me wrong.  But then I think , "Is that my bias?  Is size the most important predictor of injury at the QB level?"  It makes you think

Edited April 23, 2023 by MHS831

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, Varking said:

He said something he can’t prove when it comes to Bryce. 

He said that his playing style minimizes his risk for injury.  Do you agree with that statement? 

[Jackie Lee]

5 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

A major exception to the premise is that heavier running backs don’t get injured as much as their smaller counterparts… that’s partly because the larger running backs can take hits from 300 lb. linemen better than smaller running backs, the same goes with a QB.

In reality, heavier guys will get hurt more than smaller guys because they are asked to do a lot with more mass on their body, but that has absolutely nothing to do with being hit, it has to do with asking a 300 lb. guy to stop on a dime, pivot, and reverse back the opposite way to make a tackle while hoping he doesn’t tear every ligament.in his knee.

Yeah, most of this doctor stuff is talking about flexibility and conditioning over getting ripped in the weight room. If the debate was if one is going to be sacked by a 300 lb lineman, I would assume you would rather have the 210 guy than the 180 guy take that hit. 

[Varking]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

He said that his playing style minimizes his risk for injury.  Do you agree with that statement? 

Nope. The running around to extend plays, especially when his speed won’t play up in the NFL, will likely lead to injuries. 

[PanthersGOATFan336]

Bryce stans coming up with a thread to convince people he's a Saint who has no flaws..

The size argument is two fold he could get injured and he may have such great escapability because he can't see over the line. And in the NFL when you have faster people he won't get to run around he has no elite physical traits. So expect edge contain to make him stay in the pocket where he may or may not be able to see throwing lanes.