For the Size Bros

[Moonstone]

12 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

For sure, Cam suffered a shoulder injury in a similar fashion when he was chasing the Chargers defender down. But the point is, Young already has an injury history, a shoulder injury nonetheless, and as the team doctor mentioned, he hasn’t taken a bunch of big hits. So the question is, will his body hold up when he does take big hits?

Only way to find out the answer to that question is to wait and see when he takes the big hits. But yeah, I would say that he might be more susceptible to injury than let's say "average" built QB (in terms of the measurables).

I think there might be a line where if you get hit, the hit would have such a force and would be delivered in such a way that the QB measurables will go out the window and any QB will get injured regardless of their respective measurables (well, maybe not a QB that is built like a tank, but you get the point). But I see and understand the concern that a lot of people have that with Young's size, that line might be set lower.

One thing that can be investigated and measured is this: why he hasn't taken a bunch of big hits ?
Is it due to the competition he faced in college ? Was his offensive line that good as to not allow defenders to come near him ? Or is he that aware and elusive that even if there was a potential hit on the way and the defender was in the backfield, he identified it in time and avoided being hit - either by getting rid of the ball fast, moving in the pocket or scrambling and evading the defender ?

[MillionDollarCam]

2 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

The article makes distinctions about positions, and QB and RB are not really comparable.  A RB has a much shorter shelf life than a QB.  Running QBs do not last as long as pocket passers.  So there is a difference.  I have stated that style of play and protection play roles more than size.  I got mad when RR used to run CMC up the middle because I understand the physics.  I have even stated that if you draft AR you will get him for 8 years where if you take Young or Stroud you get a QB for 15 or more.  If Young starts running off tackle,  size will become an issue for many reasons. I was furious with RR for the way he used Cam and CMC--they were both put in position to be injured, and they were. 

That’s valid, everything is moot if the Panthers can protect Young well and the coaching staff puts him in a place to succeed while limiting the hits he takes.

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, Jackie Lee said:

Yeah, most of this doctor stuff is talking about flexibility and conditioning over getting ripped in the weight room. If the debate was if one is going to be sacked by a 300 lb lineman, I would assume you would rather have the 210 guy than the 180 guy take that hit. 

I would too--but you had to say, "I would assume..."  and in that statement lies the potential for calculated error.  Does the evidence support our feelings about Bryce getting hit by a 300 lb linemen, making him more prone to injury than if it were Cam Newton back there? 

I am rather surprised by what I am finding--as a researcher, I have learned to go with the evidence and let it take you against the current of "common sense" and assumption.  I have been proven wrong by research so many times it is laughable.   People are now (kindly) attacking the messenger in my case, as I try to show them what the research says--they refuse to go there because they don't believe it.  It makes no sense to them--or me, but I have learned to trust data and not your eyes or brain--two inconsistent organs.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

That’s valid, everything is moot if the Panthers can protect Young well and the coaching staff puts him in a place to succeed while limiting the hits he takes.

This is the hope.

[Basbear]

wish there was another Cam.

[MillionDollarCam]

6 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Yeah, most of this doctor stuff is talking about flexibility and conditioning over getting ripped in the weight room. If the debate was if one is going to be sacked by a 300 lb lineman, I would assume you would rather have the 210 guy than the 180 guy take that hit. 

Agreed.

I guess my point here is that both guys have flaws and nothing that anyone says will eliminate those flaws.

I wanted Stroud but I’d be lying if I said his test scores weren’t a concern. I could argue that Ohio State’s OC, Kevin Wilson, said Stroud had one of the quickest minds of any player that he’s ever coached or that maybe Stroud doesn’t test well, but in reality the numbers are what they are and an 18% is not good.

Likewise, a 5-10, 195 lb. QB is also a concern, especially one that has rarely taken hard hits.

[PanthersGOATFan336]

[MHS831]

6 minutes ago, PanthersGOATFan336 said:

Bryce stans coming up with a thread to convince people he's a Saint who has no flaws..

The size argument is two fold he could get injured and he may have such great escapability because he can't see over the line. And in the NFL when you have faster people he won't get to run around he has no elite physical traits. So expect edge contain to make him stay in the pocket where he may or may not be able to see throwing lanes.

 

Note how your first statement is simply not true.  You start with a ridiculous misunderstanding of the argument by exaggerating and fabricating a complex issue so that you can understand it enough to argue against it.  Facts and truth are technicalities that seem to get in your way.

So we are to ignore the evidence, research, and testimonials from doctors who work with athletes every day and listen to your dizzying intellect?  Gotcha.

[PanthersGOATFan336]

Just now, MHS831 said:

Note how your first statement is simply not true.  You start with a ridiculous misunderstanding of the argument by exaggerating and fabricating a complex issue so that you can understand it enough to argue against it.  Facts and truth are technicalities that seem to get in your way.

So we are to ignore the evidence, research, and testimonials from doctors who work with athletes every day and listen to your dizzying intellect?  Gotcha.

Go outside, fresh air will do you good 

[CPF4LIFE]

WOW....a Alabama team doctor backing Bryce....im so relieved now.

 

[stan786]

8 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I would too--but you had to say, "I would assume..."  and in that statement lies the potential for calculated error.  Does the evidence support our feelings about Bryce getting hit by a 300 lb linemen, making him more prone to injury than if it were Cam Newton back there? 

I am rather surprised by what I am finding--as a researcher, I have learned to go with the evidence and let it take you against the current of "common sense" and assumption.  I have been proven wrong by research so many times it is laughable.   People are now (kindly) attacking the messenger in my case, as I try to show them what the research says--they refuse to go there because they don't believe it.  It makes no sense to them--or me, but I have learned to trust data and not your eyes or brain--two inconsistent organs.

This is what makes me laugh as well. I've had so many assumptions blown up over my career that I tend to need to find data to back stuff up, and I cant find anything that remotely says what the common assumption is.

Its totally fair to say he's smaller than the data has information from, but that doesnt really discount the curves at other positions at his weight, nor does it really discount the trends you see at the QB position.

No one knows, there is data that shows it may be very much overblown on this board but we wont know till he plays, devaluing a player over assumptions is how you pick the wrong player though.

[mrcompletely11]

18 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

He said that his playing style minimizes his risk for injury.  Do you agree with that statement? 

Hell no

[ncfan]

It’s as if the Mannings and Luke said the same thing.

But thank god for the Huddle and it’s HOF GMs and scouts.  We can all come here and learn a thing or 2 from some real football people.

Like how we would regret Passing on Andre Dillard for a Undersized edge rusher from FSU with a spin move.

[Eric4280]

44 minutes ago, Lame Duck said:

Also don’t ignore the fact he had one of the best OLs in college during his career.  He has not been really tested by relentless pass rush.

And Stroud has had easily the best. Evident by having two top 5 tackles coming out this draft and a top three center. Bryce line WAS significantly inferior in comparison. Neal was the only blue chip (maybe Latham at G but he played RT). Youngs been tested. Have the size concerns, have the arm strength concerns, that’s all fine and fair. Let’s stop pretending that Stroud and Young played under similar circumstances. They didn’t. Jameson Williams leaves OSU because the wr room was too crowded. Goes to Alabama.

 

Beats the BEST UGA defense and maybe best college defense assembled. In that title game he loses Jameson (already didn’t have Metchie) and very well may have beat that UGA team again with SOMETHING available at WR. 
 

Stroud went up against a UGA defense that was still very good- but didn’t have to face- Jordan Davis, Devonte Wyatt, Trayvon Walker, Nakobe Dean, Quay Walker, Channing Tindall, Lewis Cine, and even Nolan Smith who was out with injury.

 

If we’re gonna hold Young accountable for the unfortunate things he can’t control, we have to hold Stroud to the same accountability.