The Whole "SEC" Argument is So Badly Flawed

[tukafan21]

I really hate when people say things like, "well he didn't get hurt in the SEC where he's playing against NFL sized and caliber players every week"

It's just nonsense that doesn't hold up to even the slightest digging into the facts.  Last year the SEC had 65 players drafted, which was the most every by a single conference, but take even half a second to look at it a bit further.  Half of those picks came from 3 teams, Georgia, LSU, and Alabama.  33 of the picks were then spread out across the rest of the conference.

Then factor in that some of them were offensive players, without going through pick by pick, that means there was probably roughly somewhere between 12-20 defensive players drafted from the SEC last year outside of those 3 teams.  

And sure, factor in that some NFL caliber players obviously didn't go pro, but also some future NFL players would have still been young and not at that level yet anyways, so for the sake of argument, let's go with the high end of 20 there and then double that number to take into account players who didn't go pro.

That would mean outside those top 3 teams, there was probably 40ish NFL caliber defensive players in the conference last year, which essentially breaks down to 3-4 NFL quality defensive players per team, of which, how many of them are actually pass rushers?

The argument against Young has never been about height, it's always been about his frame and not how will it hold up on a game by game basis, but over the course of a 17 game season and hopefully a 10+ year career.  So sure, he played a few games against teams loaded with NFL sized and quality players and he got through it, but getting through a few games without getting hurt isn't the issue.

So when people use the argument of him getting thru the SEC for 2 years without getting hurt as the proof that his size shouldn't be a factor, it's just nonsense.  I'd be very curious if someone were to go through the film of every hit he took to find out how many of them were by players of NFL size, speed, strength, etc.  

I'm guessing it's not that many, however still people want to use him getting through the SEC unscathed as the reasoning as to why he'll be able to hold up in the NFL.  But in reality, in his full career at Alabama, he probably took less hits by NFL type of players than he'll take in the first half of his rookie season alone.

Edited April 21, 2023 by tukafan21

[electro's horse]

Bryce took multiple hospital shots against Tennessee, to be fair. 

[poundaway]

 

Please show any analysis or examples that show smaller QB's get hurt more or have shorter careers, because the only analysis I've seen has shown the exact opposite.  Our experience with Cam and Corral shows the exact opposite.

Please, convince me that smaller QB's are injured more and have shorter careers.

[therealmjl]

Ok pal

 

[Pejorative Miscreant]

I think its overstated somewhat and I don't think that you can take it literally, but the SEC is probably the closest measuring stick. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Pejorative Miscreant

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, therealmjl said:

Ok pal

 

Still completely missing the point

The SEC measuring stick is about football skill, not staying healthy for what would be the smallest QB in NFL history.

If people want to point to his success as a QB in the SEC, that's completely fair and valid, especially if you want to use it to counter anyone talking about his height.

But when people point to him making it through the SEC healthy, that's where it completely falls apart. and THAT is my point here.  To be a successful QB in the SEC, you play against all positions on defense, but to stay healthy, you have to be able to absorb hits by essentially 3 positions, DE, DT, and pass rushing LB's.

I'd be very curious to know how many hits he took in the last 2 years by NFL level players, I'd bet it's less than 25 over the course of his career.

[CPF4LIFE]

To add to that the whole argument of being a successful player in the pros just because he played in the SEC is just as stupid as the argument about him holding up physically in the league. If thats the case then NO SEC players should bust in the league especially guys that go in the first round. Hell, Alabama players are not guaranteed stars in the league PERIOD. They fizzle in the pros all the time, its nothing new. 

[therealmjl]

2 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Still completely missing the point

The SEC measuring stick is about football skill, not staying healthy for what would be the smallest QB in NFL history.

If people want to point to his success as a QB in the SEC, that's completely fair and valid, especially if you want to use it to counter anyone talking about his height.

But when people point to him making it through the SEC healthy, that's where it completely falls apart. and THAT is my point here.  To be a successful QB in the SEC, you play against all positions on defense, but to stay healthy, you have to be able to absorb hits by essentially 3 positions, DE, DT, and pass rushing LB's.

I'd be very curious to know how many hits he took in the last 2 years by NFL level players, I'd bet it's less than 25 over the course of his career.

So you are concerned about his size and him staying healthy?

Can you do me a favor and point to the analysis that shows me how smaller players get hurt more and what the cutoff is?

Edited April 21, 2023 by therealmjl

[electro's horse]

And everyone likes to talk about strouds game against UGA and they should. He was incredible against the beat defense in college football. 
 

but Bryce was just as good, if not better, in arguably a worse situation.  It was in Knoxville, at night, in an insane drunken poo hole of a stadium, full of inbred Tennessee fans, the refs were paid off, bamas defense had some struggles, and the volunteers were literally trying to kill him. 
 

He won that game twice. 

[tukafan21]

7 minutes ago, poundaway said:

 

Please show any analysis or examples that show smaller QB's get hurt more or have shorter careers, because the only analysis I've seen has shown the exact opposite.  Our experience with Cam and Corral shows the exact opposite.

Please, convince me that smaller QB's are injured more and have shorter careers.

There literally isn't a fair comparison, he'd be the smallest high level QB ever, and even the other small QB's he doesn't compare to, he's not the quick twitch athlete of a Kyler Murray and he's not thickly built like a Wilson.

Thinking being a 5'10" 190 lbs QB doesn't put you at a higher risk of getting injured, is just the definition of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling at the top of your lungs so you don't have to hear the logical and sensical argument in front of your eyes.

[therealmjl]

10 minutes ago, poundaway said:

 

Please show any analysis or examples that show smaller QB's get hurt more or have shorter careers, because the only analysis I've seen has shown the exact opposite.  Our experience with Cam and Corral shows the exact opposite.

Please, convince me that smaller QB's are injured more and have shorter careers.

I'd love to see this evidence as well. 

[backINblack28]

Sample A

6'4 285

6'2 325

6'4 300

6'2 325

6'4 310

6'5 260

6'2 320

 

Sample B

6'8 282

6'4 275

6'4 294

6'4 323

6'0 305

6'6 300

6'3 300

 

One of these teams is the worst team in the SEC's defensive line.  One of them is the Falcons defensive line.  As you're about to spend some time learning since you weirdly haven't learned yet---being huge is not the main nor only factor in getting to or having success in the NFL, on the DL or otherwise.  Bryce has been running from dudes bigger than him his entire football career.  You can (or could have) watched.  This just reads like you don't and didn't.  Thanks for letting us know?

Edited April 21, 2023 by backINblack28

[tukafan21]

1 minute ago, therealmjl said:

you keep screaming about his size, can you do me a favor and point to the analysis that shows me how smaller players get hurt more and what the cutoff is?

Show me one other 5'10" 190 lbs QB that has had a long career as a starting QB?

I'll wait while you realize there hasn't been one.

Not saying Young can't be the first, just that I don't think he's worth the risk when you have an equally as good prospect in Stroud available to us and we gave up everything we did to move up to #1.

[therealmjl]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

Show me one other 5'10" 190 lbs QB that has had a long career as a starting QB?

I'll wait while you realize there hasn't been one.

Not saying Young can't be the first, just that I don't think he's worth the risk when you have an equally as good prospect in Stroud available to us and we gave up everything we did to move up to #1.

So is like 5'11 195 the cutoff? And anything under that they're doomed?

Also, if Stroud was an "equally good prospect", he would be the pick. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by therealmjl