Are smaller players more injury-prone?

[Mr. Scot]

17 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It just feels like copium. When Jake or Cam got smoke by a DL I was concerned but I fully expected them to bounce right back up.  If we draft Bryce I'm gonna be holding my breath every time he gets smoked by a DL because he's gonna be taking hits on the regular from dudes that outweigh him by 100 pounds. There's a reason you don't see Smart cars in demolition derbies.

This is basically me.

[rayzor]

7 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Apparently shoulder sprains are already a thing with Bryce

You see, I think this is a legit concern then, because there's evidence that this has been an issue. Just how frequent a problem this has been would be the next area of discussion.

I'm just not going to sit and ponder potential injuries for any player without any history of incident. Because if I did that for; ne I'd be doing it for everyone because I've seen catastrophic injuries of all kinds happen to players of all sizes. 

But until it's a demonstrative issue with a player, there is no issue. 

But then that's my opinion, my gut reaction to it all and I think that's what the whole debate comes down to ... what do you feel comfortable with and apparently it's a gut feeling and opinion that Young is at some point where you don't feel comfortable. 

But what you have to get comfortable with is that he might just be the pick. And if the is, you can sit and worry about the guy the whole time or just decide that he'll be fun to watch and worry about injury once there's an injury to worry about. 

[Beast_3000]

6 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

We can talk about physics and science and it makes sense, but what applies to Young applies to all.  Most NFL injuries are to joints, and the primary injury to QBs is a shoulder injury. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5825334/  While Bryce Young in a head on collusion with Aaron Donald is likely to lose miserably, the padding and protection is likely to prevent a long-term injury.  Worst case scenario?  A concussion.  Best case?  Wind knocked out.  Most injuries occur when the player is going through a range of motion, such as a RB cutting back (knee) or a QB getting hit while throwing (shoulder).  So in that situation, does the size of the person applying the impact matter? 

You are all right--Bryce vs. Donald = a Donald victory and possible KO for the QB--maybe a few rib issues.  But in the performance of QB duties and the motion it takes to play the position, is he more vulnerable than anyone else?

Yeah I think it’s fair to say most of us aren’t worried about joint injuries that’s why I didn’t think the analysis closely fit the concerns with Bryce. Shoulder injuries are a concern and damage from blunt force. Also parts of  your debate regarding Aaron Donald and Bryce in a head on collision still leaves some questions. 
 

You mentioned rib issues that’s exactly what we dont want. QB’s lose effectiveness and accuracy with rib injuries and potentially games. 
 

 

[Beast_3000]

25 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It just feels like copium. When Jake or Cam got smoke by a DL I was concerned but I fully expected them to bounce right back up.  If we draft Bryce I'm gonna be holding my breath every time he gets smoked by a DL because he's gonna be taking hits on the regular from dudes that outweigh him by 100 pounds. There's a reason you don't see Smart cars in demolition derbies.

Thank you. Very well said and simplified. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Beast_3000

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, Beast_3000 said:

Yeah I think it’s fair to say most of us aren’t worried about joint injuries that’s why I didn’t think the analysis closely fit the concerns with Bryce. Shoulder injuries are a concern and damage from blunt force. Also parts of  your debate regarding Aaron Donald and Bryce in a head on collision still leaves some questions. 
 

You mentioned rib issues that’s exactly what we dont want. QB’s lose effectiveness and accuracy with rib injuries and potentially games. 
 

 

I started this thread because I think it is central to what we should be discussing in relation to our concerns.  I am seeing good stuff from both sides--I blame Bryce Young's parents for this. 

[Stuart Smith]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

This is basically me.

I am as concerned about the offensive line being ready on opening day as I am any position on the field. If Christensen and Corbett are not ready opening day our depth at O.L. Is a tremendous concern. It took several fames last year for our O.L. To really start their best work. One player on the O.L. Not NFL ready can result in problems for any quarterback we draft. 

[Jackie Lee]

This was the actual play he sprained the shoulder on

 

[OneBadCat]

I'm not just concerned about the hits on his shoulder. I'm worried about how long he'll have the juice to make the necessary throws. He's having to torque his arm and his body a lot more than bigger guys to deliver the same throws. The sheer number of reps may take a toll on him. Like a baseball pitcher. 

[MHS831]

4 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

This was the actual play he sprained the shoulder on

 

the article does say that the more a skill player runs etc. the more likely he is to be injured. In this case, Young was not performing as a QB, he was running and he fell wrong--probably because he is not a RB and does not know how to "drop and roll".  Extending the play put him in an awkward position.  As a Panther, I would limit his running and teach him to slide.

If he ran all the time like a rb, it is probable that he would never have extended his right arm to break the fall like that--his own weight caused the injury--by the way, not some 300 lb DL.

[stan786]

Glad we have a medical staff that can evaluate these guys shoulders. If any of them have long term degenerative conditions I'm sure we aren't going to take them.
 

[LinvilleGorge]

53 minutes ago, OneBadCat said:

The sheer number of reps may take a toll on him. Like a baseball pitcher. 

I honestly just don't see that being much of a concern. Baseball pitchers throw a LOT more balls and every throwing motion they make is at 100%. A QB is throwing at 100% of his capability very rarely.

[frankw]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Sorta illustrates the point.  Is this good news (he is resilient and overcomes them easily or that he is good at reacting in a way to minimize the extent of the injury?) It is a concern.  Actually, Stroud had some shoulder concerns (more serious) as well:

Stroud's Shoulder injury

https://www.cleveland.com/buckeye-talk-podcast/2021/11/ohio-state-footballs-cj-stroud-reveals-the-severity-of-his-right-shoulder-injury-to-start-the-season.html

AR Shoulder Injury

Here is one about Richardson, albeit his left shoulder--but it also mentions hamstrings, etc. which supports the assumption based on the research that running QBs are more susceptible to injury: https://www.on3.com/college/florida-gators/news/injured-anthony-richardson-update-hamstring-neck-shoulder-florida-tennessee-rivalry/

Levis' Shoulder Injury

And there is this, about Levis: 

"Kentucky QB Will Levis plans extensive treatment during Wildcats’ bye week-- UK QB Will Levis knows he needs extra time in the training room during the Wildcats' bye week after foot and shoulder injuries."

Read more at: https://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-football/article267379242.html#storylink=cpy

And not the injury we associate with Hendon Hooker, but he too suffered from a shoulder injury:

Hendon Hooker suffers apparent shoulder injury late in first half

Keith Farner | 7 months ago

"Hendon Hooker suffered an apparent right shoulder injury late in the first half against Florida as the Tennessee quarterback struggled early on."

IT HAPPENS to ALL QBs. 

For sure but he will be the smallest starting QB in the NFL. It's getting to the point folks are just willfully ignoring realities with this situation.

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, frankw said:

For sure but he will be the smallest starting QB in the NFL. It's getting to the point folks are just willfully ignoring realities with this situation.

The smallest in the history of the modern nfl.   Just let that sink in.  In an era where we have animals like suh, vea, watt and bosa trying to kill you are we really going to draft the smallest guy ever to play the most important position in all of sports?   I’m not seeing it especially considering he doesn’t run and he isn’t overly athletic.   Recipe for disaster 

[stan786]

5 minutes ago, frankw said:

For sure but he will be the smallest starting QB in the NFL. It's getting to the point folks are just willfully ignoring realities with this situation.

The reality is he's an injury risk yes, but the reality isnt that Stroud is safe from any injury risk because he has 20 lbs on him. The argument is that the masses are using assumptions that havent proven out one way or another to greatly increase Young's injury risk while at the same time ignoring/diminishing CJs.

End of the day neither are safe from the physics of the NFL, the goal for all should be diminishing hits. The Bryce crowd think he does a good job of avoiding the hits that would body bag them and that helps decrease that probability a bit closing the gap on how important it should be to the evaluation. The Stroud crowd clearly thinks he puts himself in more danger and Stroud gets the ball off fast enough to avoid them.

This argument just devolves into the same Stroud vs Young argument with just more hyperbole.

Edited April 8, 2023 by stan786