Ron Rivera hints he "didn't mesh" with David Tepper

[onmyown]

29 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Tepper wasn't the issue 

Tepper hired him and offered him a contract other owners laughed at

Tepper was an is the issue until proven otherwise.

Why so many apologists? Is it because we are stuck with him? I still remember quite a bit of people on this forum backing moves JR for 2010 then go on to a two in season.

Y’all don’t have to love everything that the owner does and excuse all wrong…it’s weird

[ladypanther]

1 hour ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Nobody meshed with Tepper from the Keep Pounding era.

Then when Cam came back he mentioned something about this not being the same Panthers franchise as he once remembered. Saying that when you have major ownership change then stuff like this always happens. Key faces get moved around or moved out.

 

 

See below:

 

 

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Tepper wasn't the issue 

 

[MechaZain]

1 hour ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

I took Rivera's comments as he as the HC didn't really have an explanation or plan for their vision. I can see it that way given how Tepper wanted precise and detailed answers from Frank Reich about building his staff and vision for the QB position. I didn't take it as a slight against Tepper from Rivera. 

Yeah, pleasantly surprising for a guy who was notoriously stubborn. It sounds like Washington has the best version of Rivera now, hope we can say the same for us with Reich.

[backINblack28]

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

It was also a generational change in leadership going from Richardson to Tepper. Old school owner versus the new style of owner. Old money vs new money. 

And Rivera might be the youngest of the old school coaches out there. How he came up in the business speaking to ownership/management may have been extremely different from the younger generation of coaches making their way in the system today. 

Now, he's in the coaching chair as another old school-type owner is on the way out and a new school type of owner is on their way in. I think Rivera is referring to the need to be able to speak in a different method than just x's and o's to whoever takes ownership of the team. And I think he's facing the reality that if he doesn't learn the needed language, he's going to go the route of John Fox, Jim Caldwell, Lovie Smith and other relic head coaches that won't grab the head coaching gig again and will be relegated to advisory roles or the C-team on ESPN2 weekends.

I like Rivera as a person, I think there's a really first class guy there. As a coach, he's a player's coach who tries to develop hard-nosed, scrappy teams heavy on grit. The teams are throwbacks, as he is at this point, and he's got to find the secret formula to getting someone else to believe in putting the franchise in his hands again.

He mirrors Washington's organizations in soooo  many ways -- a relic direly needing a total makeover, a record that is meh and one that is starting to billow in the winds of change.

Good luck to him, but I think the task before him isn't going to work out in his favor. There's an entire sea change happening to Washington and I don't think he can find the magic.

Perfect post and encapsulation of Rivera.  I loved Ron, more than anything in the sense that I see a good player coach that most guys would want to run through a wall for--any of his and Wilks locker room speeches--I don't see how anyone could just straight up not be a fan. 

With that said, he had several (clock/time/huddle management, conservative offensive outlook especially juxtaposed against having a QB that was impossible to stop on 4th and 3 and better, etc) 'old school' conservative quirks that I just thought okay--if we can pair this great player's coach with him getting the staff around him to essentially cover for his shortcomings, he could reach Reid.  Andy Reid had a ton of the same issues essentially that Patrick Mahomes put a huge 2/4 superbowl bandaid on. 

Had Rivera hired Pat Shurmur here instead of just promoting Shula when we lost Chud--that would have been a much better mix and IMO would have resulted in winning a super bowl we lost because we couldn't do things like *run one screen pass to backup a ridiculously over-aggressive pass rush*.  Rivera has learned some from that experience, but he's also stayed mostly the same.  He finally has Shurmur...possibly 8 years too late. T

The whole "riverboat" thing....he essentially changed that outlook because he was on the verge of being fired outright at 1-3 in year 3...and then after that season--he realistically wasn't doing Doug Pederson 4th down stuff. We would go for it on 4th and 1 with an unstoppable 250lb running QB and ESPN would tout here comes the riverboat like if we didnt go for it he didnt deserve to be killed in the streets for not letting Cam Newton try to get 1 yard rushing.  Never was he truly riverboat.  You could see Cam have to yell over to change his mind.  And god -- the amount of times we got playcalls in with 6 seconds left on the playclock/left timeouts in our pocket and could have had extra field goals...just so much conservative stubbornness that hiring one teenager who ever played Madden could have been like 'hey dude, don't do this thing, it's not 1985' and he could be similar to Reid, just on the defensive side.  Alas, here he is. On his last legs at a second job.

I maintain this best Rivera compliment--other than the promotion of Shula--I don't think he held back a healthy roster.  When Cam/most of our roster was healthy, we got results.  I think a lot of that is Luke/Cam masking some other glaring holes (WR, OL), but Rivera still deserves credit there.  He had awful injury luck that certainly did not help his shortcomings/stubborn ways, and I think inevitably Tepper was always going to want his own guy when it's not like Rivera was providing a glowing example of why he should stay.  

I don't blame Tepper for HIRING Rhule--the Giants wanted him as the top candidate of that coaching class and we stole them.  That was awesome.  I DO blame Tepper for holding onto him after two years of pretty much no discernible system/identity/signature wins other than beating Kingsbury a couple of times. I do love the new staff in place. And I think Tepper deserves credit for giving Wilks an opportunity to have the majority of the season to prove "I'm not Ron Rivera" to which Steve Wilks took and bottom line said "I hear you and all but also, I'm Ron Rivera."

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Sheesh!

Read between the lines people!

Rivera is basically admitting he screwed up on Tepper's meatball quiz.

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

It was also a generational change in leadership going from Richardson to Tepper. Old school owner versus the new style of owner. Old money vs new money. 

And Rivera might be the youngest of the old school coaches out there. How he came up in the business speaking to ownership/management may have been extremely different from the younger generation of coaches making their way in the system today. 

Now, he's in the coaching chair as another old school-type owner is on the way out and a new school type of owner is on their way in. I think Rivera is referring to the need to be able to speak in a different method than just x's and o's to whoever takes ownership of the team. And I think he's facing the reality that if he doesn't learn the needed language, he's going to go the route of John Fox, Jim Caldwell, Lovie Smith and other relic head coaches that won't grab the head coaching gig again and will be relegated to advisory roles or the C-team on ESPN2 weekends.

I like Rivera as a person, I think there's a really first class guy there. As a coach, he's a player's coach who tries to develop hard-nosed, scrappy teams heavy on grit. The teams are throwbacks, as he is at this point, and he's got to find the secret formula to getting someone else to believe in putting the franchise in his hands again.

He mirrors Washington's organizations in soooo  many ways -- a relic direly needing a total makeover, a record that is meh and one that is starting to billow in the winds of change.

Good luck to him, but I think the task before him isn't going to work out in his favor. There's an entire sea change happening to Washington and I don't think he can find the magic.

It's a good analysis.

My one tweak would be that I don't see Dan Snyder as an old school owner so much as I see him as a dumb school owner.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Sheesh!

Read between the lines people!

Rivera is basically admitting he screwed up on Tepper's meatball quiz.

I worked for a big company several years back that gave out a company wide "employee satisfaction" survey.

They got absolutely ripped to shreds in the responses

But rather than ponder whether they might need to make some changes or take a different approach to things, they chose instead to send the survey out again. Only this time they included a memo that basically said "well, maybe you didn't understand the questions".

Give you three guesses how that went

Edited April 4, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[Khyber53]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

It's a good analysis.

My one tweak would be that I don't see Dan Snyder as an old school owner so much as I see him as a dumb school owner.

Can't argue with that assessment. A massive bank account does not insure intellect or wisdom.

 

Or a system of ethics...

[WUnderhill]

1 hour ago, countryboi said:

He didnt mesh because he was on his way out, everyone was. This is what happens when you get a new owner, they build the team in their vision. The new Redskins owner is going to do the same

Yeah…that’s what he’s saying. Their vision for the team and how to build it together moving forward has to mesh otherwise it’s a waste of time.

[WUnderhill]

1 hour ago, backINblack28 said:

Perfect post and encapsulation of Rivera.  I loved Ron, more than anything in the sense that I see a good player coach that most guys would want to run through a wall for--any of his and Wilks locker room speeches--I don't see how anyone could just straight up not be a fan. 

With that said, he had several (clock/time/huddle management, conservative offensive outlook especially juxtaposed against having a QB that was impossible to stop on 4th and 3 and better, etc) 'old school' conservative quirks that I just thought okay--if we can pair this great player's coach with him getting the staff around him to essentially cover for his shortcomings, he could reach Reid.  Andy Reid had a ton of the same issues essentially that Patrick Mahomes put a huge 2/4 superbowl bandaid on. 

Had Rivera hired Pat Shurmur here instead of just promoting Shula when we lost Chud--that would have been a much better mix and IMO would have resulted in winning a super bowl we lost because we couldn't do things like *run one screen pass to backup a ridiculously over-aggressive pass rush*.  Rivera has learned some from that experience, but he's also stayed mostly the same.  He finally has Shurmur...possibly 8 years too late. T

The whole "riverboat" thing....he essentially changed that outlook because he was on the verge of being fired outright at 1-3 in year 3...and then after that season--he realistically wasn't doing Doug Pederson 4th down stuff. We would go for it on 4th and 1 with an unstoppable 250lb running QB and ESPN would tout here comes the riverboat like if we didnt go for it he didnt deserve to be killed in the streets for not letting Cam Newton try to get 1 yard rushing.  Never was he truly riverboat.  You could see Cam have to yell over to change his mind.  And god -- the amount of times we got playcalls in with 6 seconds left on the playclock/left timeouts in our pocket and could have had extra field goals...just so much conservative stubbornness that hiring one teenager who ever played Madden could have been like 'hey dude, don't do this thing, it's not 1985' and he could be similar to Reid, just on the defensive side.  Alas, here he is. On his last legs at a second job.

I maintain this best Rivera compliment--other than the promotion of Shula--I don't think he held back a healthy roster.  When Cam/most of our roster was healthy, we got results.  I think a lot of that is Luke/Cam masking some other glaring holes (WR, OL), but Rivera still deserves credit there.  He had awful injury luck that certainly did not help his shortcomings/stubborn ways, and I think inevitably Tepper was always going to want his own guy when it's not like Rivera was providing a glowing example of why he should stay.  

I don't blame Tepper for HIRING Rhule--the Giants wanted him as the top candidate of that coaching class and we stole them.  That was awesome.  I DO blame Tepper for holding onto him after two years of pretty much no discernible system/identity/signature wins other than beating Kingsbury a couple of times. I do love the new staff in place. And I think Tepper deserves credit for giving Wilks an opportunity to have the majority of the season to prove "I'm not Ron Rivera" to which Steve Wilks took and bottom line said "I hear you and all but also, I'm Ron Rivera."

Ehhhh, that reads a bit like revisionist history considering Rhule took our offer to the Giants and begged them to match it and they declined. There were a lot of people who thought it was a bad hire from the start, but I can see how you could argue it was a reasonable coaching hire in some way. What is basically unarguable is that in no way did Rhule deserve to be given the power and the contract that he got. He had not earned that at all, and it was a terrible and indefensible decision. Also, his plan to only hire yes-man college assistants for his staff is something Tepper would have known in the interview and that other teams would have known. I feel very confident that the interest in full roster control, full college assistant, social media micro manager Matt Rhule was probably not as high around the league as you are making it out. 

[backINblack28]

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2020/1/1/21044909/head-coaching-candidates-carousel

this article names four teams including us and the giants--two of which wanted him the year prior. I don't think it's revisionist history that he was a top candidate.  I think Tepper learned plenty from that but at the same time I think giving Rhule the keys at least made more sense in retrospect when you consider him as the program builder he was in college, coupled with the fact that Hurney was a lame duck GM yes man at that point to whoever we hired.  I don't think it's ever a good decision for coach to be a GM or to have too much say, but again, as a hire/what Rhule had done and where we were with Hurney, I can at least understand the decision making process, and I feel like outbidding the Giants is mostly irrelevant other than literally I was glad to have outbid an NFC East team.  That has nothing to do with salary cap it's just money out of Tepper's pocket.

They fired the coach they hired instead too so it's not like they picked 'the right way.'  I just think the full control was an easier ask for a guy who had his resume of completely turning around trash college programs especially when we had Hurney just trying to stay employed. Hindsight is super easy now because Rhule would have been like one of the worst college to NFL stories ever among tons of them-- if Urban Meyer didn't exist.  The stubbornness of keeping him when he hadn't shown anything is a different thing entirely, but I think Tepper is judged pretty harshly for missing on one coaching hire which was a coin plenty of teams were ready to flip. I just said I didn't blame him for hiring Rhule. I at least understand why we were in a position to give a HC more power than a team ever should with Tepper trying to band aid a situation instead of wholly cleaning house which in hindsight he 100% should have done. I think he was on board with the track record of program building and said yes to too many stipulations because of that, and I'm not trying to defend that as much as just to move forward and at least disclaim that the second time around I think he has shown he's learned/is doing things completely differently which is all I ask from that debacle

Edited April 4, 2023 by backINblack28

[KillerKat]

He didnt mesh with winning either.

[The Huddler]

Ron hasnt done a damn thing but ride Cam's coat tail

[PootieNunu]

Go away Ron, 3 winning seasons in your entire career as a HC and not another one in sight. 

You suck as a HC.