[The Athletic] How the Bears & Panthers trade went down

[Icege]

Written by Joe Person + Bears' beat writers Kevin Fishbain and Adam Jahns. Those with memberships to The Athletic can click here to read.

Lot of interesting caveats and insights into the process, along with some "What-ifs?"

 

Excerpts below...

*******************************

Ryan Poles was driving everyone nuts.

The Bears general manager couldn’t sit still in his office at Halas Hall.

It was Friday, March 10, and some of the team’s top decision-makers — assistant GM Ian Cunningham, senior vice president/general counsel Cliff Stein and director of football administration Matt Feinstein — had gathered with Poles at the team’s home base in Lake Forest, Ill.

“I was pacing back and forth, just all over the place,” Poles said. “I just wanted to get it done.”

“It” would be the trade that shook up the NFL Draft, the trade that would alter the futures of the two organizations involved — and maybe those that weren’t.

In Charlotte, GM Scott Fitterer was in his office with head coach Frank Reich, assistant GM Dan Morgan, VP of football administration Samir Suleiman and president Kristi Coleman, waiting to see if the Panthers secured the No. 1 pick for the first time since 2011 — the year they drafted an Auburn quarterback named Cam Newton.

When the trade was finalized — just before happy hour in the East — Carolina had put itself in position to find a franchise quarterback. But the celebration was brief: The Panthers had to call their best offensive player and tell him he was being dealt to Chicago.

*******************************

In early October, it appeared the Panthers might get the No. 1 pick without needing to trade for it. They were 1-4 when they fired coach Matt Rhule after a 22-point home loss to San Francisco and fell to 1-5 the following week at Los Angeles in Steve Wilks’ first game as interim coach.

When the Panthers traded running back Christian McCaffrey to the 49ers on Oct. 21, there was talk about whether they were tanking for the top pick.

But players rallied around Wilks, who leaned on his defense and a physical rushing attack led by D’Onta Foreman. That approach kept the Panthers competitive, and they traveled to Tampa Bay in Week 17 with first place in the NFC South on the line.

As Carolina started winning, Fitterer understood he would need to get creative to position the Panthers for one of the top quarterback prospects in the 2023 draft.

“Once you know you’re not gonna be in the top five, it’s, ‘OK, how we gonna get there?'” he said. “But let’s worry about that later. Let’s win now.”

After losing to the Bucs, the Panthers beat the Saints in their regular-season finale to cap a 7-10 season and secure the No. 9 pick.

“That’s when it gets more expensive,” Fitterer said. “What makes sense? Do you bridge it another year with another vet and keep building? But at some point, we had to fix it.”

*******************************

Poles needed help — or maybe just some advice from a friend in town. So he called Blackhawks general manager Kyle Davidson.

“Really, hockey is the only one where you’re trading a combination of picks and players,” Poles said. “So I just was curious.”

He had plenty of questions about how the Blackhawks valued players against picks, how contracts and age played into the equation, etc. Davidson started laughing.

“He’s like, ‘It’s a challenge,'” Poles recalled.

Like the Blackhawks, Poles asked the Bears’ analytics team to work on “wins over expected,” an advanced measurement, to measure the potential impact of a trade acquisition.

*******************************

Poles took the information with him to the scouting combine in Indianapolis. The Panthers were the first team to reach out.

“They were the first ones to kind of kick it off,” he said, “which tells you a lot.”

Poles worked out of the Hyatt in downtown Indianapolis, away from the bustle of the JW Marriott complex and where other Bears staff members stayed. He said he “slow-played” things at first, then heard from Fitterer, whom he knew well from their days on the road as scouts.

The two GMs met in Poles’ suite as the combine got underway on Monday, Feb. 27. Fitterer said the initial meeting lasted about 20 minutes. He realized fairly quickly he wouldn’t be able to make the jump from 9 to 1 with picks alone.

Poles would later ask about several Panthers players, three of whom best fit some of the Bears’ needs. Neither GM would confirm it, but according to league sources with knowledge of the talks who were granted anonymity to discuss the deal without repercussions, Poles was interested in pass rusher Brian Burns, defensive tackle Derrick Brown and receiver D.J. Moore, all former first-round picks.

*******************************

The Panthers’ first offer did not include a player, but Fitterer and Poles kept talking in Indianapolis, including twice at Lucas Oil Stadium. With little headway on an agreement, Fitterer pulled the offer on Sunday, March 5, before flying back to Charlotte the following day.

*******************************

A night after Fitterer’s first meeting with Poles, the team’s brass — including owners David and Nicole Tepper, Reich and quarterbacks coach Josh McCown — sat down with free-agent Derek Carr at the Marriott in downtown Indianapolis. Reich came away from the meeting impressed with the 32-year-old former Raiders quarterback.

“Derek is an excellent leader. He’s an excellent passer,” Reich told reporters the next day. “He checks a lot of boxes that you’re looking for.”

But after renting a quarterback in each of Rhule’s three seasons, the Panthers were ready to go the draft-and-develop route, which Reich and Fitterer both had called the preferred approach.

The Panthers had top-10 picks in three consecutive drafts in which they didn’t take a quarterback. They watched the Chargers draft Justin Herbert one spot ahead of them at No. 6 in 2020 and didn’t view Fields and Mac Jones or Kenny Pickett as worthy of a top-10 selection in 2021 or 2022, respectively.

But Fitterer was more convicted about this year’s quarterback class and agreed to circle back with Poles in the days after the combine. Back in Charlotte, Fitterer continued to run through scenarios with Reich, Morgan and Suleiman, who handles player negotiations and salary-cap management.

*******************************

There was more for Fitterer to sort through, too. He had discussions with Arizona and Seattle about the No. 3 and No. 5 picks, respectively. Fitterer spent two decades in the Seahawks’ front office and remains close with GM John Schneider, but the talks for the fifth pick never intensified.

The Panthers weren’t alone in wanting to jump to No. 1, and they sensed there would be competition. Indeed, Poles said a “wave” of teams checked in after Carolina. The Bears had calls with QB-needy teams throughout the draft — not only in the top 10, where three were willing to discuss potential compensation.

The Raiders had conversations about what it would take to get to the top pick from No. 7. The Colts (including Poles’ former colleague in Kansas City, Chris Ballard) were also involved but only to a certain point; the timing just wasn’t right for Indianapolis and some other clubs.

What intrigued Poles most, though, was the possibility of moving down one spot to Houston’s pick at No. 2 and then down to No. 9. For the Bears, it would be two big moves wrapped into a bigger one. The Panthers, who were comfortable with two of the top four quarterbacks, were open to it. But Poles’ dream scenario hinged on the Texans moving up.

*******************************

“There were certain players that we never really wanted to trade,” Fitterer said. “It’s so hard to replace a Derrick Brown or Brian Burns, a pass rusher (and) an interior, dominant young player on a (first) contract. D.J., we didn’t want to move either. But it’s a little bit easier to replace a receiver than it is a pass rusher or a three-tech.”

The inclusion of D.J. Moore in the trade helped Carolina keep a future first-round pick. (Bob Donnan / USA Today)
The framework of the deal was mostly in place, but there was a hangup: The Bears wanted the Panthers’ second-round pick (No. 39), which Fitterer was determined to keep. Instead, the Panthers countered with their other second-round pick (No. 61), which they’d acquired in the McCaffrey trade.

“We didn’t want to have that big gap in there,” Fitterer said. “We thought the sweet spot in this class is somewhere between 20 and 45, just really good value in there. At 61, that’s a heck of a fall, and you’re gonna watch a lot of good players (get taken).”

Fitterer proposed a sweetener to close it out — the Panthers’ second-round pick in 2025 — to go along with 9 and 61 this year, next year’s first and Moore. Tepper, the hedge fund manager worth $18.5 billion, signed off on the additional second.

“He thought that was a pretty inexpensive move to get up there to get your future quarterback to change the direction of your franchise,” Fitterer said. “Dave’s very good at managing value, showing some restraint yet being aggressive. This is the world he lives in.”

*******************************

With Tepper participating remotely via conference call, the Panthers were fired up after finishing the deal. But first, they had to get in touch with Moore and his agent, Drew Rosenhaus.

“It was an exciting moment for everyone. There were a lot of high-fives,” Suleiman said. “But it was — I hate to say short-lived, but we had to immediately call D.J. and let him know so he wasn’t learning (by) reading about it. We wanted him to hear it from us first.”

Afterward, Fitterer and Morgan would go to dinner with their wives. But all of the Panthers’ decision-makers unwound in Fitterer’s office first, talking about the trade for a half-hour or so.

“Wow,” Fitterer said to the group, “Did we just trade up for the first pick?”

[CamWhoaaCam]

 

 

What's done is done.

[Growl]

So they gave up an extra 2 just to keep 20 spots?
 

 

ehhhhhhhh….
 

probably would’ve kept the 2 and then just pounced with our 4s come draft night for someone 

[CamWhoaaCam]

1 minute ago, Growl said:

So they gave up an extra 2 just to keep 20 spots?
 

 

ehhhhhhhh….
 

probably would’ve kept the 2 and then just pounced with our 4s come draft night for someone 

What's done is done.

[Mr. Scot]

I was actually just preparing to post this

Here's my version, with my own insights inserted:

_____________________________________________

It was Friday, March 10, and some of the team’s top decision-makers — assistant GM Ian Cunningham, senior vice president/general counsel Cliff Stein and director of football administration Matt Feinstein — had gathered with Poles at the team’s home base in Lake Forest, Ill.

“I was pacing back and forth, just all over the place,” Poles said. “I just wanted to get it done.”

“It” would be the trade that shook up the NFL Draft, the trade that would alter the futures of the two organizations involved — and maybe those that weren’t.

In Charlotte, GM Scott Fitterer was in his office with head coach Frank Reich, assistant GM Dan Morgan, VP of football administration Samir Suleiman and president Kristi Coleman, waiting to see if the Panthers secured the No. 1 pick for the first time since 2011 — the year they drafted an Auburn quarterback named Cam Newton.

When the trade was finalized — just before happy hour in the East — Carolina had put itself in position to find a franchise quarterback. But the celebration was brief: The Panthers had to call their best offensive player and tell him he was being dealt to Chicago.

You might note that this initial paragraph doesn't mention David Tepper, but a later one lets you know that he was in on things via conference call at the time this transaction was finalized.

...

When the Panthers traded running back Christian McCaffrey to the 49ers on Oct. 21, there was talk about whether they were tanking for the top pick.

But players rallied around Wilks, who leaned on his defense and a physical rushing attack led by D’Onta Foreman. That approach kept the Panthers competitive, and they traveled to Tampa Bay in Week 17 with first place in the NFC South on the line.

As Carolina started winning, Fitterer understood he would need to get creative to position the Panthers for one of the top quarterback prospects in the 2023 draft.

“Once you know you’re not gonna be in the top five, it’s, ‘OK, how we gonna get there?'” he said. “But let’s worry about that later. Let’s win now.”

After losing to the Bucs, the Panthers beat the Saints in their regular-season finale to cap a 7-10 season and secure the No. 9 pick.

“That’s when it gets more expensive,” Fitterer said. “What makes sense? Do you bridge it another year with another vet and keep building? But at some point, we had to fix it.”

To be clear, tanking was never an option, and that's as it should be. Fitterer was on board with Wilks doing the best he could to win and agreed that he'd adjust on the fly to whatever happened.

...

Chicago was open to sticking with quarterback Justin Fields and improving the roster around him before a critical evaluation year. The Bears didn’t have the second, third or fourth pick. They had the first. And, whether through media reports or just knowing the holes on other rosters, Poles, Cunningham and the rest of the Bears’ front office knew what teams needed.

“It set up where it puts certain teams in need of a quarterback in certain spots,” Poles said.

Poles took the information with him to the scouting combine in Indianapolis. The Panthers were the first team to reach out.

“They were the first ones to kind of kick it off,” he said, “which tells you a lot.”

Pretty clear the plan was always to be aggressive with this.

...

Poles worked out of the Hyatt in downtown Indianapolis, away from the bustle of the JW Marriott complex and where other Bears staff members stayed. He said he “slow-played” things at first, then heard from Fitterer, whom he knew well from their days on the road as scouts.

The two GMs met in Poles’ suite as the combine got underway on Monday, Feb. 27. Fitterer said the initial meeting lasted about 20 minutes. He realized fairly quickly he wouldn’t be able to make the jump from 9 to 1 with picks alone.

Poles would later ask about several Panthers players, three of whom best fit some of the Bears’ needs. Neither GM would confirm it, but according to league sources with knowledge of the talks who were granted anonymity to discuss the deal without repercussions, Poles was interested in pass rusher Brian Burns, defensive tackle Derrick Brown and receiver D.J. Moore, all former first-round picks.

“Usually young teams like that, they want all picks,” Fitterer said. “In (Poles’) situation, I think it helped that they had some cap space they needed to fill. And then they have a young quarterback that they need to figure out is he the guy going forward.”

This confirms previous chatter about what players were being discussed as part of the trade.

...

The Panthers’ first offer did not include a player, but Fitterer and Poles kept talking in Indianapolis, including twice at Lucas Oil Stadium. With little headway on an agreement, Fitterer pulled the offer on Sunday, March 5, before flying back to Charlotte the following day.

A night after Fitterer’s first meeting with Poles, the team’s brass — including owners David and Nicole Tepper, Reich and quarterbacks coach Josh McCown — sat down with free-agent Derek Carr at the Marriott in downtown Indianapolis. Reich came away from the meeting impressed with the 32-year-old former Raiders quarterback.

“Derek is an excellent leader. He’s an excellent passer,” Reich told reporters the next day. “He checks a lot of boxes that you’re looking for.”

Interesting to note that at the time we were talking with Carr, we had taken our offer for the #1 pick off the table. Carr was a legitimate option, though as you'll see not the preferred one.

...

But after renting a quarterback in each of Rhule’s three seasons, the Panthers were ready to go the draft-and-develop route, which Reich and Fitterer both had called the preferred approach.

The Panthers had top-10 picks in three consecutive drafts in which they didn’t take a quarterback. They watched the Chargers draft Justin Herbert one spot ahead of them at No. 6 in 2020 and didn’t view Fields and Mac Jones or Kenny Pickett as worthy of a top-10 selection in 2021 or 2022, respectively.

But Fitterer was more convicted about this year’s quarterback class and agreed to circle back with Poles in the days after the combine. Back in Charlotte, Fitterer continued to run through scenarios with Reich, Morgan and Suleiman, who handles player negotiations and salary-cap management.

Likewise interesting to hear the retro information on prior drafts, especially regarding Fields and Pickett. That we liked this year as class better than previous ones (excluding Herbert) worked out in our favor.

...

Whenever Bears head coach Matt Eberflus visited Poles’ office, he could see who was in play for the No. 1 pick and a detailed update on where negotiations stood.

“(They) had everything up on the board so you could see every suitor that was there and look and weigh the options,” he said.

There was more for Fitterer to sort through, too. He had discussions with Arizona and Seattle about the No. 3 and No. 5 picks, respectively. Fitterer spent two decades in the Seahawks’ front office and remains close with GM John Schneider, but the talks for the fifth pick never intensified.

It was previously reported that what the Cardinals wanted for the #3 pick wasn't all that much less than what the Bears ultimately accepted for #1. Kinda surprised there wasn't more discussion with Seattle though.

...

The Panthers weren’t alone in wanting to jump to No. 1, and they sensed there would be competition. Indeed, Poles said a “wave” of teams checked in after Carolina. The Bears had calls with QB-needy teams throughout the draft — not only in the top 10, where three were willing to discuss potential compensation.

The Raiders had conversations about what it would take to get to the top pick from No. 7. The Colts (including Poles’ former colleague in Kansas City, Chris Ballard) were also involved but only to a certain point; the timing just wasn’t right for Indianapolis and some other clubs.

What intrigued Poles most, though, was the possibility of moving down one spot to Houston’s pick at No. 2 and then down to No. 9. For the Bears, it would be two big moves wrapped into a bigger one. The Panthers, who were comfortable with two of the top four quarterbacks, were open to it. But Poles’ dream scenario hinged on the Texans moving up.

First I've heard that there was an option on the table for the Bears to trade down to #2 and then for the Panthers to trade up to that spot rather than #1. That the Panthers were good with more than one prospect has been confirmed multiple times. I know there was some negative reaction to this idea when it was first reported, but I still don't get why. It's kind of silly.

...

Fitterer had heard about the Bears’ talks with other teams and called Poles on his way to his daughter’s high school soccer game on Tuesday, March 7.

“He’s like, ‘Yeah if you want to jump in on this, make an offer,'” Fitterer said.

Poles met Tepper when he interviewed for the Carolina GM job in 2021. Based on that experience, he knew Tepper to be an aggressive businessman. The Panthers had swung big for a quarterback a couple of times after Tepper bought the team in 2018, making trade offers for Matthew Stafford and Deshaun Watson.

“If they saw value in this, then they would be very motivated to get it done,” Poles said.

This is where Tepper starts figuring into the story.

...

After his conversation with Poles, Fitterer called Tepper, and the owner agreed it was time to make a bold move to escape the quarterback purgatory that had existed in Carolina since Newton’s body began to break down in 2018. Fitterer then called Poles back, and the two talked through the entirety of Fitterer’s daughter’s soccer game. The Panthers made a second offer, this time including Moore.

Wonder how Fitterer's wife and daughter felt about that

...

Fitterer was reluctant to part with Moore, Carolina’s first-round pick in 2018 whom the Panthers extended last offseason at three years and $61.9 million before the wide receiver market blew up. Moore never went to a Pro Bowl in Carolina. But he was one of only three receivers in Panthers history with three consecutive 1,000-yard seasons — a tough, durable player who missed two games in five seasons.

“We couldn’t get there with just picks,” Fitterer said. “So we argued that D.J. was worth a 1, plus somebody else. We both agreed how valuable he would be for a young quarterback, to give him a proper evaluation.”

Poles had said publicly he thought he could get three first-round selections for the pick. But by including Moore in the deal, the Panthers were able to hold on to one of their future firsts.

“There were certain players that we never really wanted to trade,” Fitterer said. “It’s so hard to replace a Derrick Brown or Brian Burns, a pass rusher (and) an interior, dominant young player on a (first) contract. D.J., we didn’t want to move either. But it’s a little bit easier to replace a receiver than it is a pass rusher or a three-tech.”

The narrative that the Panthers were okay with getting rid of Moore in the deal was always a dumb one. Maybe Moore needs something like that to motivate him, but it was never true.

...

The framework of the deal was mostly in place, but there was a hangup: The Bears wanted the Panthers’ second-round pick (No. 39), which Fitterer was determined to keep. Instead, the Panthers countered with their other second-round pick (No. 61), which they’d acquired in the McCaffrey trade.

“We didn’t want to have that big gap in there,” Fitterer said. “We thought the sweet spot in this class is somewhere between 20 and 45, just really good value in there. At 61, that’s a heck of a fall, and you’re gonna watch a lot of good players (get taken).”

Fitterer proposed a sweetener to close it out — the Panthers’ second-round pick in 2025 — to go along with 9 and 61 this year, next year’s first and Moore. Tepper, the hedge fund manager worth $18.5 billion, signed off on the additional second.

“He thought that was a pretty inexpensive move to get up there to get your future quarterback to change the direction of your franchise,” Fitterer said. “Dave’s very good at managing value, showing some restraint yet being aggressive. This is the world he lives in.”

I like that we were determined to hang on to the higher pick. Fitterer doesn't just roll over in negotiations.

...

With Tepper participating remotely via conference call, the Panthers were fired up after finishing the deal. But first, they had to get in touch with Moore and his agent, Drew Rosenhaus.

“It was an exciting moment for everyone. There were a lot of high-fives,” Suleiman said. “But it was — I hate to say short-lived, but we had to immediately call D.J. and let him know so he wasn’t learning (by) reading about it. We wanted him to hear it from us first.”

Afterward, Fitterer and Morgan would go to dinner with their wives. But all of the Panthers’ decision-makers unwound in Fitterer’s office first, talking about the trade for a half-hour or so.

“Wow,” Fitterer said to the group, “Did we just trade up for the first pick?”

Also like that it was important to the team to let Moore know personally. And again, that doesn't jibe with his "they didn't want me" comments.

_____________________________________________

All in all, a very good article from the Bears side as well. I can easily recommend reading the entire thing

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

Quote

 

“That’s when it gets more expensive,” Fitterer said. “What makes sense? Do you bridge it another year with another vet and keep building? But at some point, we had to fix it.”

If Fitt himself posted this on the huddle in October/November he would have been flamed about how the Panthers need that winning culture over a QB

[GOAT]

bro I dead ass can't read that much, idk how you guys do it. 

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, GOAT said:

bro I dead ass can't read that much, idk how you guys do it. 

Icege and I only posted excerpts. The full article is actually much longer

For me, I really enjoy reading and I love knowing behind the scenes stuff.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[Ricky Spanish]

5 hours ago, Growl said:

So they gave up an extra 2 just to keep 20 spots?
 

 

ehhhhhhhh….
 

probably would’ve kept the 2 and then just pounced with our 4s come draft night for someone 

This way we have at least one pick in the first two rounds each year for the next 3 years, as opposed to no first or second next season. It'd be easier to trade back in 2025 to recoup a second than trade up into round 2 with limited resources next season. 

Honestly prefer it this way so we still have the chance to get some good players in the draft next season as opposed to waiting until pick 70 before drafting for the first time. 

[OldhamA]

As discussed it's all fun and games, but if they pick a bust then everyone in the room when the trade went down needs to be fired.

They gave away SO much.

[LinvilleGorge]

Trade finalized just before happy hour...

ironically, I found out standing at the bar at Ass Clown Brewing in Cornelius when it scrolled across the ESPN ticker. 

Now let's hope that isn't prophetic and we don't turn out to be ass clowns in this deal.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Trade finalized just before happy hour...

ironically, I found out standing at the bar at Ass Clown Brewing in Cornelius when it scrolled across the ESPN ticker. 

Now let's hope that isn't prophetic and we don't turn out to be ass clowns in this deal.

There's a place called Ass Clown Brewing?

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's a place called Ass Clown Brewing?

Yep. It's damn good too.

I have an account I drop-off product to on Huntersville. Generally make it a habit of swinging into Ass Clown when I do. Definitely one of the best in the Carolinas.

 

[CPantherKing]

Well Fitt has been kicking 1.000 at assessing the value of some of the most sought after 1st round QBs.

Cam Newton, Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield

He has the eye of Bill Walsh who needed minutes to tell if a QB has the skills/talents/mind to succeed in the NFL. He is in no way following the crowd who talk up and rate these QBs as a 1st round QB. He will load up on the 1st round gems just like Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, Dick Vermeil, Jon Gruden, Mike Holmgren, Pete Carroll, and Sean Payton.

Obviously, this QB crop is going to win SBs for decades. No way they end up tanking like 1979, 1987, 1999, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2012, 2018, and 2021 1st round QBs. 1st round drafts with multiple champion QBs going in the first 10 picks are not a once in a quarter century event.

The QBs being talked about in the first round top 10 have the same feeling as the 2018 QB draft with Mayfield (so impressive; Young), Darnold (so accurate; Stroud), Allen (so much potential; Richardson), and Rosen (so prototypical but cocky; Levis). Is Hendon Hooker the Lamar Jackson going at the end of the 1st or dropping into the 2nd round?

I'm sure next year will be filled with SB champion 1st round prospects again, just like 2018, 2020, 2021, 2022, and now 2023.

Beware Fitt. The 2023 QB class is overrated.