Let's talk Terrace Marshall

[Wundrbread33]

3 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

No kidding. I don’t get the hype. He has 1 TD in 2 years in the most garbage time of garbage times down 42-7. Even Mayfield looked good at the end of that game because Cincy pulled starters.

Also, I don’t know where the “doghouse” talk is from and trying to equate him with Bozeman who wasn’t playing.

Marshall played 63.5% of the snaps. Outside of OL, only DJ Moore played more snaps. This idea that he never played was debunked by me in his rookie year and now again this year.

OP mentioned his biggest issue, IMHO, separation. I know that Next Gen Stats said he did well but that’s based on receptions/targets and he was two more than the minimum targets. He had a few long catches which led to it looking like he could separate but his target to snap ratio is lower than all other WRs last year even Chosen. That to me says he doesn’t get open enough to get more targets.

It should be obvious that almost everyone in here mentions that he was in the dog house yet he played 63.5% of the snaps even though he missed 3 games. If he played all 17, he would have played almost 80% of the snaps. He wasn’t riding the pine like Bozeman, he was our WR2 out there most plays. He didn’t get open enough. DJ played 50% more snaps but had triple the targets and DJ was the focus of the D.

As a fan, a breakout would be awesome but folks thinking he’ll replace DJ’s stats. To replace DJ’s stats, his snap count % better be 200% next year, which seems doable with Chark, Thielen and Hurst.

Maybe. Snap count isn’t useless but it is incomplete and vague. We don’t know what read he was during those snaps. We don’t know run/pass play ratio. We don’t know the relationship to each QB, or which receivers/routes those QB’s preferred. 
 

It sure seemed like he improved down the stretch when Darnold gave some stability to the offense, and the offense found identity post-Rhule. 
 

A lot will be cleared up this year under Reich. 

[Teddy2SuperBowlHeartBreaks]

We've drafted so many busts (plus a literal murderer and fatass) at WR I have very low hope that Marshall will by some miracle become a productive WR2 in year 3 lol. He has done nothing to show that he is capable of it, and the team will have at least 4 or 5 better options on the field at any given time. 

[pantherclaw]

Marshall thrived when he wasn't considered the best on the field. With the addition of the vets we've added, plus new coaching, I expect him to make a significant jump.  

I'd personally rather see touchdowns out of him, than to see hom break 1,000. 

[csx]

It's his for the taking

[WhoKnows]

11 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Hold up!  I have been screaming about Marshall this offseason.  He is not going to breakout--he already has.  He is the reason (and Shenault) that i do not think we should take a WR at 39.

During 2021, Marshall had 138 yards on 17 receptions.

During the first eight games of 2022, Marshall had 148 yards on 10 receptions.  During the time, we got rid of Anderson and Rhule. In the last 8 games of 2022--more than a half season--Marshall had 342 yards on 18 receptions.

If you take the last 8 games of 2022--when TMJ was forced into the offense more, he would have averaged 43 yards per game.  Over a 17 game season, that equates to 727 yards. 

Considering the QB situation, coaching, maturity, etc.  It is reasonable to expect TMJ to continue that type of production, if not improve it.

PS.  He is not yet 23.  There are many players in this draft who are older.

Your math isn’t right. His last 8 games were 43, 76, 8, 18, 51, 55, 15 and 23. That’s 289 yards in 8 games or 614 yards pro-rated to 17 games. You included 9 games and prorated it as 8 games. He’s also missed 4 games and 3 games in 2 seasons.

As much as you want to paint him as unused by Rhule, he was hurt early on so there’s not much to go on. He hasn’t broken out. 4 of his last 8 games were 8, 18, 15 and 23 yards. In our must win Tampa game he had 15 yards.

Again, he played almost 80% of snaps all year when healthy. He was on the field a ton and didn’t produce. Maybe he will but I still worry that his day to day separation is not good and I think Thielen and Chark and Hurst will relegate him to non-breakout status.

[WhoKnows]

10 hours ago, Wundrbread33 said:

Maybe. Snap count isn’t useless but it is incomplete and vague. We don’t know what read he was during those snaps. We don’t know run/pass play ratio. We don’t know the relationship to each QB, or which receivers/routes those QB’s preferred. 
 

It sure seemed like he improved down the stretch when Darnold gave some stability to the offense, and the offense found identity post-Rhule. 
 

A lot will be cleared up this year under Reich. 

He improved down the stretch because he missed 3 games and got no targets in his other game (Giants) in weeks 1-4. It felt like Rhule was holding him back but he wasn’t available and didn’t get targeted. This wasn’t a Bozeman situation. Even in 2021, I went through his snap counts and he was WR3 and was on field for half the snaps, again when healthy. So, he was on the field every snap that wasn’t two TEs. So far, he really has gotten a low target per snap ratio, lower than anyone else.

I have no problem if he does break out, that helps the team, but the theories that he just needs more snaps and was in the dog house and did great in limited snaps is just not true in his first two years. Remember when all of us said how open DJ and even Chosen were when Teddy and Same couldn’t hit them? I don’t recall that coming up at all with Marshall. It just seemed like once a game he’d be open for a 20+ yarder and that’s about it.

I have no doubt that, if healthy, Thielen, Chark and Hurst will dominate targets. I think that could leave Marshall with about what we saw this year.

[Wundrbread33]

2 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

He improved down the stretch because he missed 3 games and got no targets in his other game (Giants) in weeks 1-4. It felt like Rhule was holding him back but he wasn’t available and didn’t get targeted. This wasn’t a Bozeman situation. Even in 2021, I went through his snap counts and he was WR3 and was on field for half the snaps, again when healthy. So, he was on the field every snap that wasn’t two TEs. So far, he really has gotten a low target per snap ratio, lower than anyone else.

I have no problem if he does break out, that helps the team, but the theories that he just needs more snaps and was in the dog house and did great in limited snaps is just not true in his first two years. Remember when all of us said how open DJ and even Chosen were when Teddy and Same couldn’t hit them? I don’t recall that coming up at all with Marshall. It just seemed like once a game he’d be open for a 20+ yarder and that’s about it.

I have no doubt that, if healthy, Thielen, Chark and Hurst will dominate targets. I think that could leave Marshall with about what we saw this year.

To be fair we had a historically (figuratively but probably literally) bad offense the first half of the year. 
 

Truly painful. Baker/McAdoo combo was something else. 
 

Last year was such a shitshow it makes it harder to evaluate skill players without diving into all-22 footage, but I admit I’m way too lazy to do that. 
 

And it’s also possible I’m overly optimistic. Hell that’s been me since the cloud of Rhule was lifted. 
 

As long as someone steps up and catches passes for our rookie, I’m good. Marshall or not. As you said, hopefully so as it helps the team. 

[WhoKnows]

9 minutes ago, Wundrbread33 said:

To be fair we had a historically (figuratively but probably literally) bad offense the first half of the year. 
 

Truly painful. Baker/McAdoo combo was something else. 
 

Last year was such a shitshow it makes it harder to evaluate skill players without diving into all-22 footage, but I admit I’m way too lazy to do that. 
 

And it’s also possible I’m overly optimistic. Hell that’s been me since the cloud of Rhule was lifted. 
 

As long as someone steps up and catches passes for our rookie, I’m good. Marshall or not. As you said, hopefully so as it helps the team. 

Yep, I don’t want him to fail but the 1000+ yard expectations just feel like those people who thought Teddy would go for 4000 and 35. It feels like his targets will be limited compared to last year with only DJ. Rookie QB (crossing fingers) will help, but we added more than DJ and I’m not high on Marshall. If we saw Marshall like we did with all the images in 2020 of DJ being wide open and Teddy not seeing him, we could call a breakout. Ignoring his 7 missed games, Marshall was WR3 in 2021 and WR2 in 2022 with minimal CMC games and no TE receiving threat so we should have seen Marshall was open here and there with his lack of targets if he was really getting separation. We didn’t and that’s why I don’t predict a breakout. That’s why I was so all in on trading Burns knowing we’d likely trade up for a QB. I wanted those picks to build an arsenal of receiving weapons and insane OL around the rookie. TE draft looks great this year and Rams blowing up after Stafford gets hurt gets us Harrison Jr (hopium), we pull a solid WR2 with some other pick and also add OL depth/stud IOL to improve on BC, etc.

[Wundrbread33]

1 hour ago, WhoKnows said:

Yep, I don’t want him to fail but the 1000+ yard expectations just feel like those people who thought Teddy would go for 4000 and 35. It feels like his targets will be limited compared to last year with only DJ. Rookie QB (crossing fingers) will help, but we added more than DJ and I’m not high on Marshall. If we saw Marshall like we did with all the images in 2020 of DJ being wide open and Teddy not seeing him, we could call a breakout. Ignoring his 7 missed games, Marshall was WR3 in 2021 and WR2 in 2022 with minimal CMC games and no TE receiving threat so we should have seen Marshall was open here and there with his lack of targets if he was really getting separation. We didn’t and that’s why I don’t predict a breakout. That’s why I was so all in on trading Burns knowing we’d likely trade up for a QB. I wanted those picks to build an arsenal of receiving weapons and insane OL around the rookie. TE draft looks great this year and Rams blowing up after Stafford gets hurt gets us Harrison Jr (hopium), we pull a solid WR2 with some other pick and also add OL depth/stud IOL to improve on BC, etc.

Yeah I absolutely want a TE in this class. I really liked watching Hurst last year in Cincy, and I like Tremble (he’s been misused IMO). I also like Ricci, who made the most of his targets, but is most likely on the outside looking in due to undrafted status. 
 

But there are multiple “complete” TE’s in this draft, and I’d love to add one who can contribute while having a vet like Hurst to take some pressure off. 
 

 

[Mistuh Jones]

We actually have an NFL offensive staff with a very good WR coach. I think we see an uptick in all of our incumbent WRs. If not I think they'll be the fug outta here sooner than in years past

[WhoKnows]

5 minutes ago, Wundrbread33 said:

Yeah I absolutely want a TE in this class. I really liked watching Hurst last year in Cincy, and I like Tremble (he’s been misused IMO). I also like Ricci, who made the most of his targets, but is most likely on the outside looking in due to undrafted status. 
 

But there are multiple “complete” TE’s in this draft, and I’d love to add one who can contribute while having a vet like Hurst to take some pressure off. 
 

 

It would be nice to strike gold with the 2nd and get a Kelce/Olsen/Kittle. Still unbelievable we took Gaulden one pick before Andrews when Olsen got hurt and missed most of 2017. Just one example of Hurney boning us by being too loyal to players.

I like Hurst way better than the rest we have but I’d love to get a rookie too. I just don’t think the WRs that will be there at 39 are the same class of WRs in other years. TEs at 39 are likely much better values unless there’s a huge TE run and all WRs fall.

[Basbear]

20 hours ago, top dawg said:

I think that he'll start from the get-go.

I would hold my horses about any separation issues. I think that his biggest issue was QBs who focused in on more as opposed to spreading the ball around. We should know what's what by season's end.

I think its Thomas that "starts" or gets the most snaps, but this is another topic us us hardcore could hammer out......I dont want Thomas, but right now Id say he would get the nod over TMJ. Be one hell of push if TMJ is burning up DB this season. I still got hope for the long-long-long shot preston willliams. 

Another topic I thought about was was the spread on if Dalton gets like 3-6 starts? Huddle riot? Im thinking stoud/young may not be ready week 1. Then the ginger pulls a frank reich flashback and starts 3 games......