Just for the sake of discussion, is there a correlation between size and injury?

[ForJimmy]

14 minutes ago, ECHornet said:

Yes. I think he hovers around 200-204lbs on a weekly basis. I'm taking his weigh in at the combine as evidence. I'm further convinced after hearing TJ Houshmandzadeh, who Bryce has trained with and seen daily, mention that Bryce weighs over 200 on a daily basis. He's also my height and his arms and shoulders are holding more muscle mass. I weigh 190.

I think Young will spend the majority of his NFL career playing at a weight between 208-215lbs. 

Then why not simply weigh in at his Pro Day?  Also why do nothing but weigh in at the combine?  I think people that are die hard Young WANT to believe he plays over 200, because a 180lb QB would be off the charts.  I'm not sure it really matters, but I have a hard time believing he weighs what he weighed in at during the combine.  Even during the interview he was asked if this was his actual playing weight...  Murray for example is at 207.  I have a hard time believing Young weighs the same.

[stan786]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

There's no crystal ball, that's for sure. NFL front offices LOVE comps though. They get nervous with outliers. 

Make no mistake, Bryce Young's size is being rigorously debated behind closed doors among every team holding a high pick and looking at QBs.

Oh i'm sure, I'd hope they are debating numerous things about both QBs. I honestly dont get why people think CJs frame is safe, he's pretty damn skinny as well. I think they both have a ton of pluses and minuses to debate. I just dont think if we draft Bryce he's destined to be injured constantly is all, and i'd say the data tends to agree (Small sample size noted). There is plenty of question marks in my eyes on Bryce were if our staff wants Stroud i'm all in.

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, ECHornet said:

The only actual data in this thread points to Stroud being more at risk of injury than Young due to weight. It's not definitive, but more convincing than all the gut feels of Huddle posters.

 

Only if you live in a reality where dividing by zero is possible. Because the reality is that there's no data for someone Bryce Young's size playing QB in the NFL.

[stan786]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's the thing though. People watching Bama are accustomed to basically seeing an NFL OL. Virtually everyone that starts meaningful games at Bama on the OL is going to get a shot at the NFL.

For sure, I wasnt arguing that he had hardships because of the line in my comment, i'm just saying it wasn't the world beaters you'd expect last year.

[panthers55]

Of course size and weight are issues but it seems to me that muscle mass is important as is the ability to avoid contact much like Sweetness used to do for the Bears. Payton was 5'10" and 200 lbs. I don't know how he would fare in today's NFL or if he would be as resistant to injury now as he was then but the sense then was that he was great at avoiding direct contact and crunching tackles. Young can do that in college. Will it translate to the NFL? Likely. Will it stop him from getting ragdolled like Tua? No.  And would a defender pick up a 6'4" guy and 230 guy and toss him like that? Unlikely.  All of these are factors.  And to stay healthy you have to avoid injury every time.  In a show I recently saw one assassin says to the other, " They got away again". The other assassin says yeah but they have to win every time and we only have to win once.  So it isn't just injury but getting pummeled like Tua and start the clock to early retirement. The question to me is whether Young's other characteristics are so much better than Strouds  for example to mitigate the obvious risk since Young is so small and it is a concern.

[LinvilleGorge]

I've said plenty of times that I'll ultimately be just fine with drafting Young, Stroud, or Richardson. Whichever one we land on, let's go.

[stan786]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

Of course size and weight are issues but it seems to me that muscle mass is important as is the ability to avoid contact much like Sweetness used to do for the Bears. Payton was 5'10" and 200 lbs. I don't know how he would fare in today's NFL or if he would be as resistant to injury now as he was then but the sense then was that he was great at avoiding direct contact and crunching tackles. Young can do that in college. Will it translate to the NFL? Likely. Will it stop him from getting ragdolled like Tua? No.  And would a defender pick up a 6'4" guy and 230 guy and toss him like that? Unlikely.  All of these are factors.  And to stay healthy you have to avoid injury every time.  In a show I recently saw one assassin says to the other, " They got away again". The other assassin says yeah but they have to win every time and we only have to win once.  So it isn't just injury but getting pummeled like Tua and start the clock to early retirement. The question to me is whether Young's other characteristics are so much better than Strouds  for example to mitigate the obvious risk since Young is so small and it is a concern.

I mean Tua plays close to 220.

[ForJimmy]

17 minutes ago, rayzor said:

the thing is, they had to learn to adapt. their lack of mobility made them a target so they had to learn to get the ball out quicker. Young seems to be able to get the ball out quickly and also sense and evade incoming defenders and hits.

he's adapted not being able to see over huge linemen by scrambling around and getting his own viewing lanes but also knowing where everyone is supposed to be at any given point during a play. It makes sense that he would be able to adapt to other limitations he has, like being much smaller than the defenders wanting to bring him down. 

That part worries me at the next level.  Having to scramble around to see over OL to see a throwing lane.  The NFL is a game of inches and also a game of seconds.  He is great at processing, but the extra second he needs to run around and find a lane could be crucial.  I like him as a prospect, but he is far from a sure thing due to his limitations IMO.  

[rippadonn]

Obviously size is a concern for sure but the speed of the NFL pursuit and the complexity of blitz packages will almost assure the guy getting more hits from grown stronger men than in college.

I don't want to see the experiment. Yes, he's very small for football and I've already posted on this site the agony of watching and hoping Robby Anderson would get up after the many times he got rocked.

Robby played at about 180 with the same small frame Young has. No thanks. I cheered for Robby and prayed when he got laid out but not my QB....not my QB.

[ECHornet]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Only if you live in a reality where dividing by zero is possible. Because the reality is that there's no data for someone Bryce Young's size playing QB in the NFL.

Imaginary "playing weight" again.

I think he didn't weigh in again because he wasn't asked, similar to not running the 40. He's likely taking advice from his agent, and stands nothing to gain by weighing in weekly up until the draft. He's already put up a number he thinks will get him drafted in the top 2. What would be the purpose? Don't you think he'd weigh in if the Panthers staff asked to see it and he wants to go to Carolina?

[Ivory Panther]

1 hour ago, stan786 said:

I feel like while yes him running can increase the number of hits taken, you cant remove the amount he's avoiding by moving from the equation. Even for running QBs the pocket is where the far majority of QB injuries occur, being able to navigate the pocket and avoid some of that mess also needs to be factored a bit.

I'd argue Brees and Young in pocket move very similarly watching them, while Bryce does end up extending stuff I havent seen on tape where it leads to a signficant increase in bigger hits or anything.

Though I will curb this with a point in your favor where Bryce's one shoulder injury came from trying to get the ball out falling into the sidelines, reminded me a little of Cam and that tackle against San Diego where he just fell out it at a weird angle.

I think for ppl who want CJ, the goal post is always going to be moved when it comes to Bryce until draft night. 
it started with height. When it was proved with stats that Bryce actually is good in the middle unlike other short QBs.

it moved to weight. If weight is disproved by he can add weight. It moves to frame. Then it moves to running & weight &…

The way I look at it is injuries cannot be predicted. Kyler has been healthier than Trey Lance who is much bigger. 
burrow messed up his ACL in the pocket. Cam was a running QB but got hurt in the pocket. Carson Wentz big as hell got hurt outside the pocket. Jimmy G…

decision should be made on who the best QB is for the team moving forward & not who will likely be healthy.

I like Bryce better because of his processing & clutch gene. I think that’s what separates the greats. But I do worry abt his arm strength a bit.

CJ has some elite traits like ball placement & pocket passing fluidity that I absolutely love & he is a fighter who had to earn everything he got! 

I think with our coaching staff, either QB will be very successful & as a fan who had to watch Kyle Allen, Taylor Heineke, Teddy, darnold, baker, PJ…I’m extremely excited for the possibility of Bryce or CJ. 

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, rippadonn said:

I don't want to see the experiment. 

Then you don't want a draft pick. 

[rippadonn]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Then you don't want a draft pick. 

C'mon you know exactly what I'm talking about.

I don't want to see Young absolutely CRUSHED in a Panthers uniform while I'm watching MY team.

Let someone else take that huge risk.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, ECHornet said:

Imaginary "playing weight" again.

I think he didn't weigh in again because he wasn't asked, similar to not running the 40. He's likely taking advice from his agent, and stands nothing to gain by weighing in weekly up until the draft. He's already put up a number he thinks will get him drafted in the top 2. What would be the purpose? Don't you think he'd weigh in if the Panthers staff asked to see it and he wants to go to Carolina?

There's nothing imaginary about it. It's the only weight that actually matters.

If you honestly don't think NFL teams wanted to see him weight in again you are utterly delusional. Weighing in at your pro day is the norm. That's why it was noteworthy when he didn't.