Just for the sake of discussion, is there a correlation between size and injury?

[TheMaulClaw]

1 hour ago, rayzor said:

i have been thinking about this and i'm sure most of you have been as well. we're concerned about Young's size and how likely it is for him to get injured by players twice his size.

i know it makes sense that it would be a major concern, but is that concern really warranted? Are smaller framed players, especially QBs, more prone to injury than larger ones?

Just like the issue of batted down passes, there are some players more prone to having them batted down, but it isn't because of their height. Could it be that the stats bear out that size isn't really a factor in frequency of injury for QBs? 

Thanks to @stan786 for finding this article on weight vs. injuries https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/weight-and-injuries

I'm going to let you all look at it and see what you think and also see if you can find anymore studies showing this.

again, it makes sense that it would be a concern, but is the concern warranted by any actual stats? or is it all, "he's so small and they're so big!!!"?

When watching Bryce Young there is one play that really stands out to me.  The defender had him absolutely marked in a vulnerable position.  Bryce Young releases the ball and the defender holds up thankfully.  In the NFL this would have been a different story.  If an NFL defender would have hit him in this same position it would have been lights out for Young.  

I am tired of the SEC and NFL comparisons.  The NFL is full of SEC all star players that have been relentlessly training in the weight room for years beyond college.  There is a huge difference in a LB at Missisippi St vs a 6 year NFL veteran

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, ECHornet said:

He's satisfied with the weight he showed?

The Panthers/Texans are satisfied and didn't need to see him weigh in again?

He doesn't care what national media thinks?

He's not concerned with proving his playing weight to Huddle doubters?

Then why even throw?  Did Carolina specifically ask him to throw?  Of course not.  These teams are just down here to observe the players and get to know them.  He was also throwing the deep ball to show he has enough arm strength.  Why did he do that?  I find it hard to believe anyone thinks he weighs was Murray weighs looking at them side by side.

[ECHornet]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

So why not show it again?

You honestly think NFL teams opted for less information? He was about to step on the scale and they came running to stop him?

He shouldn't. This isn't about the media.

He probably has no idea that the Huddle exists.

You post that you're ok with any of Young, Stroud, or Richardson being the choice, but it seems like you really don't want it to be Young. 

I will be very happy with either of Young/Stroud, but I think Young is the better QB and should be the choice. I will be very disappointed if we traded what we did to draft Richardson. Especially considering he would be available later and potentially even at #9.

 

Bottom line....if it was a concern of the Panthers and they wanted Bryce to weigh in again at Pro Day, I believe it would have happened. It seems like, at minimum, Bryce's agent thinks they satisfied the concerns of relevant teams at the combine. I am pretty confident Bryce could have taken the hoodie off at the combine and put up a performance similar to his Pro Day. The strategy of his agent was to skip the combine drills, and I can't blame him considering he'll be a top 2 selection. It's like college players skipping meaningless bowl games in an abundance of caution before they make their millions.

[panthers55]

Just now, ECHornet said:

I take it you didn't actually look at the data posted in this thread.

Unless it is specific to position and then further broken down by things like what type of system you run it is really useless. Cam got injured not because of his size but because he was used as a battering ram. Guys like Josh Allen are big and strong but routinely run through the line on called quarterback draws. Meanwhile a guy like Brees played in a west coast type style where he got the ball out quickly and he rarely took a hit. So what contributed to each of these quarterbacks getting injured? Their size and weight or the way they were used?? Does Allen stand a good chance of being injured because of how he plays? Maybe size limits what you can do because you are protecting your small qb at all costs.  With Young are  you limiting your offense since you don't want him running that much.  The useful of all data is in the analysis which in this case was woefully inadequate. And surely not useful as a predictive tool.

[ForJimmy]

9 minutes ago, stan786 said:

I would argue Strouds issues were bad early in the season and then he started showing signs of it as the season progressed and improved as it went on, culminating in the Georgia game. Which I think is actually a positive as he showed signs of development and then had a game where it all came together. I agree its overblown but I also think this Young injury risk stuff is way overblown.

My argument is basically they are both very good prospects that we should be happy to have.

I think that's spot on.  He probably wasn't accustomed to pressure with that OSU OL in front of him.  Once teams were able to get some pressure on him, he started adjusting his play style.  

I have nothing against Young.  I think he is a phenom on the college level, I just rank Stroud higher as a NFL prospect but think Young can still be great.  I have it close enough to where I would be happiest if we could get Houston to move up and take whoever they don't want plus the extra picks.  

[Ivory Panther]

8 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Plays under center.

Lol, ok. 

[rightturn]

58 minutes ago, ECHornet said:

You can do that when you have elite skills/talent. That's what Bryce fans see in his film.

The large bulk of us think he has elite skills, we just don't think 5'10 180lbs is long for this league.  And coaches in college and front offices in the nil tend to agree

[stan786]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

I think that's spot on.  He probably wasn't accustomed to pressure with that OSU OL in front of him.  Once teams were able to get some pressure on him, he started adjusting his play style.  

I have nothing against Young.  I think he is a phenom on the college level, I just rank Stroud higher as a NFL prospect but think Young can still be great.  I have it close enough to where I would be happiest if we could get Houston to move up and take whoever they don't want plus the extra picks.  

Yeah I tend to gravitate toward Young just because I think his personality and mental stuff are so top notch compared to prospects that have come out recently, but I think Stroud has everything you'd want in a prospect and I have no qualms if the Front Office prefers him. I honestly have them ranked almost identical, even before we traded up.

[ForJimmy]

Just now, Ivory Panther said:

Lol, ok. 

I mean you asked.  At his size his is strictly a shotgun QB and I would be very careful with QB sneaks for that one yard.  I think our staff is good enough to use him correctly and cater the offense to his strengths, but it will be limited to a degree.

[rightturn]

50 minutes ago, ECHornet said:

The only actual data in this thread points to Stroud being more at risk of injury than Young due to weight. It's not definitive, but more convincing than all the gut feels of Huddle posters.

 

Then where are all the qbs under 6ft in the nfl?  Because coaches at early levels don't let kids play qb for fear of injury.  This isn't hard.

[stan786]

1 minute ago, rightturn said:

The large bulk of us think he has elite skills, we just don't think 5'10 180lbs is long for this league.  And coaches in college and front offices in the nil tend to agree

They do? Arent most reports most teams have Bryce QB1 in the draft?

[TheMaulClaw]

In the NFL, defenses will eat a personal foul call to enflict pain on the qb, especially in the playoffs.  

Be naive if you want to but that will happen to Young.

[ECHornet]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Unless it is specific to position and then further broken down by things like what type of system you run it is really useless. Cam got injured not because of his size but because he was used as a battering ram. Guys like Josh Allen are big and strong but routinely run through the line on called quarterback draws. Meanwhile a guy like Brees played in a west coast type style where he got the ball out quickly and he rarely took a hit. So what contributed to each of these quarterbacks getting injured? Their size and weight or the way they were used?? Does Allen stand a good chance of being injured because of how he plays? Maybe size limits what you can do because you are protecting your small qb at all costs.  With Young are  you limiting your offense since you don't want him running that much.  The useful of all data is in the analysis which in this case was woefully inadequate. And surely not useful as a predictive tool.

Do you think Bryce will be used as a battering ram?

You're worried that we may limit our offense with Bryce because we don't want him to run for safety concerns. Well, you won't run with Stroud because it doesn't seem he's capable of doing so at the NFL level since he rarely did in college.

[TheMaulClaw]

Just now, rightturn said:

Then where are all the qbs under 6ft in the nfl?  Because coaches at early levels don't let kids play qb for fear of injury.  This isn't hard.

They're currently injured.