Just for the sake of discussion, is there a correlation between size and injury?

[ForJimmy]

Just now, ECHornet said:

Imaginary "playing weight" again.

I think he didn't weigh in again because he wasn't asked, similar to not running the 40. He's likely taking advice from his agent, and stands nothing to gain by weighing in weekly up until the draft. He's already put up a number he thinks will get him drafted in the top 2. What would be the purpose? Don't you think he'd weigh in if the Panthers staff asked to see it and he wants to go to Carolina?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/03/23/bryce-young-declines-to-weigh-in-at-pro-day-workout/

"It’s a clunky, goofy way to obscure the truth. And the truth is that, whatever Young currently weighs, he fears the number is low enough that it will hurt his final draft position."

Weighing in takes seconds and have zero risk of injury.  Not to mention it is very relevant to his frame concerns.  Not buying it and neither are most scouts.  The fact you are so adamant about him weighing over 200 shows how much of a concern it can be.  What's wrong with him weight 180/190?  Those have even less injury examples right?

[rayzor]

5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

That part worries me at the next level.  Having to scramble around to see over OL to see a throwing lane.  The NFL is a game of inches and also a game of seconds.  He is great at processing, but the extra second he needs to run around and find a lane could be crucial.  I like him as a prospect, but he is far from a sure thing due to his limitations IMO.  

i just see him as a guy who has been able to process and adapt to anything in front of him and be able to do it quickly.

aside form his size, there is no reason to believe this guy won't be elite. i just wonder if that size is enough of a deterrent on it's own and i'm inclined to believe that, because of the other things brought to the table... things he brings and that this team will bring (superior coaching and what is shaping out to be one hell of an OL)... i just don't think that his size won't be something that will come at much of a disadvantage to him or at least i don't think that it will keep him from realizing his potential and being a long term factor in the game.

[panthers55]

4 minutes ago, stan786 said:

I mean Tua plays close to 220.

Yeah he came out of college around 200 lbs and it seems it fluctuates between 205 to 220 over the years  But he isn't a big guy compared to a 6'6" 275lb to 300 lb guy. And the bigger the difference the more likely one big hit can cause significant damage. That much is clear if you have watched football for years. All the stats you can muster don't change the hard realities of football.

[rayzor]

13 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Then why not simply weigh in at his Pro Day?  Also why do nothing but weigh in at the combine?  I think people that are die hard Young WANT to believe he plays over 200, because a 180lb QB would be off the charts.  I'm not sure it really matters, but I have a hard time believing he weighs what he weighed in at during the combine.  Even during the interview he was asked if this was his actual playing weight...  Murray for example is at 207.  I have a hard time believing Young weighs the same.

i don't think that ultimately it's much of a factor. he didn't weigh in because it's a distraction, and maybe not a concern to a team really interested in him. he's got lots of doubters and speculators because of his size, but his weight doesn't tell much of his story.

everyone who needs to know, they know. the weigh in was for media. it's all just talking points, but i think it's something that we, if we are the team that is going to draft him already knows the real deal on and they will have chosen to look past his size. 

[stan786]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

Yeah he came out of college around 200 lbs and it seems it fluctuates between 205 to 220 over the years  But he isn't a big guy compared to a 6'6" 275lb to 300 lb guy. And the bigger the difference the more likely one big hit can cause significant damage. That much is clear if you have watched football for years. All the stats you can muster don't change the hard realities of football.

Tua weighed in at the combine at 217 4 lbs heavier than Stroud. I'm not sure when he was last 200. If Tua is the example why are we not concerned with Stroud who has a slighter frame.

Edited March 27, 2023 by stan786

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, rayzor said:

i just see him as a guy who has been able to process and adapt to anything in front of him and be able to do it quickly.

aside form his size, there is no reason to believe this guy won't be elite. i just wonder if that size is enough of a deterrent on it's own and i'm inclined to believe that, because of the other things brought to the table... things he brings and that this team will bring (superior coaching and what is shaping out to be one hell of an OL)... i just don't think that his size won't be something that will come at much of a disadvantage to him or at least i don't think that it will keep him from realizing his potential and being a long term factor in the game.

He definitely does some great things on the field.  Honestly if Stroud was sitting right there I would be all in on Young.  I just think both are great at processing and ball placement.  One seems limited (to a degree) on what you can run offensively due to his size and the other doesn't.  That's the only reason I am leaning Stroud.  Take away Stroud and Young's the guy by a mile.  

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, rayzor said:

i don't think that ultimately it's much of a factor. he didn't weigh in because it's a distraction, and maybe not a concern to a team really interested in him. he's got lots of doubters and speculators because of his size, but his weight doesn't tell much of his story.

everyone who needs to know, they know. the weigh in was for media. it's all just talking points, but i think it's something that we, if we are the team that is going to draft him already knows the real deal on and they will have chosen to look past his size. 

The ironic thing about that is NOT weighing in was much more of a distraction than if he simply did like everyone else.  It made him look like he was hiding something if he wasn't.  

[stan786]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

He definitely does some great things on the field.  Honestly if Stroud was sitting right there I would be all in on Young.  I just think both are great at processing and ball placement.  One seems limited (to a degree) on what you can run offensively due to his size and the other doesn't.  That's the only reason I am leaning Stroud.  Take away Stroud and Young's the guy by a mile.  

I guess my think with Stroud is I dont think people are putting enough weight on how many QBs have come into the NFL bad with pressure and never improved. There is at least a decent risk on that limiting Stroud's career trajectory as well.

But end of the day almost all QBs come into the draft with these kind of question marks. They are both pretty good prospects imo and two guys i'm going to be happy to have.

[rayzor]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

He definitely does some great things on the field.  Honestly if Stroud was sitting right there I would be all in on Young.  I just think both are great at processing and ball placement.  One seems limited (to a degree) on what you can run offensively due to his size and the other doesn't.  That's the only reason I am leaning Stroud.  Take away Stroud and Young's the guy by a mile.  

every player is going to have strengths and weaknesses/limitations that they bring to the picture. good coaches and good players will adapt what they do to what they are capable/not capable of. they always find a way to compensate. and adapt.

[ECHornet]

7 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/03/23/bryce-young-declines-to-weigh-in-at-pro-day-workout/

"It’s a clunky, goofy way to obscure the truth. And the truth is that, whatever Young currently weighs, he fears the number is low enough that it will hurt his final draft position."

Weighing in takes seconds and have zero risk of injury.  Not to mention it is very relevant to his frame concerns.  Not buying it and neither are most scouts.  The fact you are so adamant about him weighing over 200 shows how much of a concern it can be.  What's wrong with him weight 180/190?  Those have even less injury examples right?

I'd take Bryce #1 at 175. I think he's that talented and believe the NFL is protecting their QBs to an absurd level these days.

I've already posted three evidence-backed reasons why I believe his weight hovers around 200. All the "playing weight" posters can do is say "c'mon man it's obvious." 

Also - what the national media tries to drum up as a big deal doesn't affect my opinions. Hearing Reich say it's something to consider did. If Reich wanted to see Bryce's weight, he'd weigh in if he wants to be a Panther. He may have and it was behind closed doors. I can come up with hypotheticals too.

[rippadonn]

1 minute ago, stan786 said:

Tua weighed in at the combine at 217 4 lbs heavier than Stroud. I'm not sure when he was last 200.

Strouds frame can add on ten or so pounds to his benefit.

Will 10-20lbs benefit Young or make him less mobile? Can he add weight and keep it? He didn't weigh in so we don't know that.

How does he measure up with the rest of the QBs? Didn't throw at the combine on purpose.

IF Young didn't hide, but showed HEART like this is ME. He'd have more respect but he hid like a little boy instead of fighting and competing alongside the other MEN.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

IMO, Stroud is the "safe" pick. He checks all the boxes. Good arm, good mobility, decent size, great accuracy, seems to read and process well. But the program he comes out of is well know for stat inflation and NFL QB busts and he was throwing to guys who are top tier NFL prospects.

Young is the best QB. If he was the same size as Stroud there would be no debate about QB1 in this draft. But he's not. The size is a huge concern.

Richardson is the unicorn. Absolutely elite physical traits. But his college production was subpar and what do you think he can develop into?

Honestly, I'm glad it's not my call. I can understand the argument for and against all three. It's a tough call right now, but in hindsight it might all seem extremely obvious.

I'm gonna root like hell for whoever we pick and hope we get it right. I was all aboard the Cam train but I just haven't fell in love with any particular prospect this year. I honestly think the fact that I actually trust this staff to make the call has a lot to do with that.

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, stan786 said:

Tua weighed in at the combine at 217 4 lbs heavier than Stroud. I'm not sure when he was last 200.

You keep making.my point. If Tua weighing 220 by your numbers  but small in height and frame gets ragdolled then Young is even more a risk at likely under 200 lbs.  Taller bigger framed guys in the 220 range will be more resistant to getting tossed than a small guy like Young. You don't need group stats to figure that out.

[Ivory Panther]

8 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

He definitely does some great things on the field.  Honestly if Stroud was sitting right there I would be all in on Young.  I just think both are great at processing and ball placement.  One seems limited (to a degree) on what you can run offensively due to his size and the other doesn't.  That's the only reason I am leaning Stroud.  Take away Stroud and Young's the guy by a mile.  

What can u run on offense with CJ that u can’t with Bryce?