John Ellis on Stroud v Young

[CPF4LIFE]

2 hours ago, frankw said:

You are correct there isn't enough data. Specifically for Bryce's height and weight. We have examples of QB's 6 foot 210 range. But not 5'10 185-190 it just isn't there. Well Doug Flutie but I mean cmon lol. For me this really boils down to weighing risk vs reward. That is what the staff and Fitterer will have to decide on. If they think he's worth the risk based on his other intangibles then make the pick. He could go on to become a star. Of course there's also the possibility on the other end of the spectrum. And that one ends with folks losing their jobs.

Exactly. No ifs ands or buts. You gotta go. 

[stan786]

3 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Exactly. No ifs ands or buts. You gotta go. 

You think Fitt is gonna keep his job if we go Stroud and he fails? Fitt has to hit regardless.

[Ricky Spanish]

 

23 hours ago, Wes21 said:

Here is a kid that smokes the defense and Bryce makes the throw from a clean pocket.  Stroud would put this on the money and the kid would walk in for a TD and everyone would say it was an easy pass and catch.  I marked where Bryce put the ball with a green dot.

Here is another one that is an easy pass and catch for Stroud.  The kid settles in the zone and is open.  Bryce turns down this pass to scramble around and throw a more difficult pass for a touchdown. 

In defense of Bryce Young:

You don't know if he's missing these guys, they're running the wrong routes, or what the play progression is.

For the play with the Green dot, JT O'Sullivan breaks that play down and says the receiver most likely ran the wrong route (I have it timestamped):

The TD pass you pointed out: from the endzone view it looks like the receiver you highlight was read #3 after the other two guys on the left. The argument could be made he should have been able to identify that look pre-snap, but he was still able to buy time in the pocket, keep his head downfield and throw a TD.

JT's video is great and he further breaks down the rest of the game gushing about him, because he had 5 TDs and over 300 yards passing. 

CJ is a rhythm thrower in part because he has the superior supporting cast and his offensive scheme is incredibly QB Friendly so it allows him to be in rhythm all game long. The Georgia game showed that he can throw off schedule and excel at it when given the chance, but was that a flash in the pan?

Bryce Young has shown the playmaking "IT" Factor on more than one occasion. His tape is filled with it. It's why I'd be thrilled if we drafted him. You can find 1 or 2 plays per game from both CJ and Bryce where they make the wrong read or just flat out miss someone. It happens. But more often times than not Bryce does not miss those guys (Neither does CJ for that matter).

Both QBs look like great prospects. It is a 1a, 1b kind of a deal for me at this point. The questions the team needs to ask and answer are:

How much is CJ propped up by his scheme and talent that surrounds him?

How much will Bryce Young's size hinder him in the NFL?

Everything else can be answered by watching tape with these two, because they are both great prospects.

Once they come to an answer to those questions, we'll take our guy and hope for the best. 

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, stan786 said:

You think Fitt is gonna keep his job if we go Stroud and he fails? Fitt has to hit regardless.

His leash is a lot longer with stroud then it would be with young if he is the choice and say gets injured 6 games in.  

[stan786]

Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

His leash is a lot longer with stroud then it would be with young if he is the choice and say gets injured 6 games in.  

What if we take Stroud and he gets injured 6 games in? We still drafted a QB with a relatively slight frame. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, stan786 said:

You think Fitt is gonna keep his job if we go Stroud and he fails? Fitt has to hit regardless.

I'm not convinced of that.

This quarterback pick is going to be a result of full collaboration between personnel and coaching. Reich (and reportedly Jim Caldwell) will figure very prominently into the final choice.

What do you do? Fire everybody?

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, stan786 said:

What if we take Stroud and he gets injured 6 games in? We still drafted a QB with a relatively slight frame. 

Is the knock on stroud going into the draft his frame and the issue of injury like it is for Young?  I am not seeing it anywhere

[stan786]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not convinced of that.

This quarterback pick is going to be a result of full collaboration between personnel and coaching. Reich (and reportedly Jim Caldwell) will figure very prominently into the final choice.

What do you do? Fire everybody?

I would say if you take a guy they all get the first contract to prove a concept. 
 

I don’t think any of them necessarily last long enough if by 3 year it’s clear you have to draft a new one.

 

They aren’t getting fired year one of this.

[stan786]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Is the knock on stroud going into the draft his frame and the issue of injury like it is for Young?  I am not seeing it anywhere

No because they are so hyper focused on Young, Strouds got a Teddy Bridgewater build which hadn’t proven out to success.

You think we are firing people if Young takes an injury year one? Ok let’s focus on Strouds issue, what if year one Stroud crumples under pressure enough it becomes a worry early. Do they get fired year one?

They both have enough flaws they can fail for their weaknesses, the rope is going to be 2-3 seasons minimum.

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, stan786 said:

No because they are so hyper focused on Young, Strouds got a Teddy Bridgewater build which hadn’t proven out to success.

You think we are firing people if Young takes an injury year one? Ok let’s focus on Strouds issue, what if year one Stroud crumples under pressure enough it becomes a worry early. Do they get fired year one?

They both have enough flaws they can fail for their weaknesses, the rope is going to be 2-3 seasons minimum.

Where did I say anyone was getting fired year 1?

[stan786]

Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

Where did I say anyone was getting fired year 1?

Nowhere, you said a longer rope because what happens if Young gets injured week 6 was wondering what exactly that would do to the leash compared to Stroud failing for an issue of his.

The answer is the rope is generally the same because they are gonna get a few years to prove our a concept.

If Young gets injured or his arm doesn’t prove to be as strong and he can’t hit the windows. Or Stroud can’t handle the pressure and can’t win with the weapons we have around him.

Failure gonna cost some jobs regardless.

[thefuzz]

21 minutes ago, stan786 said:

Nowhere, you said a longer rope because what happens if Young gets injured week 6 was wondering what exactly that would do to the leash compared to Stroud failing for an issue of his.

The answer is the rope is generally the same because they are gonna get a few years to prove our a concept.

If Young gets injured or his arm doesn’t prove to be as strong and he can’t hit the windows. Or Stroud can’t handle the pressure and can’t win with the weapons we have around him.

Failure gonna cost some jobs regardless.

The biggest fears of each QB are:

Young:  Size and injury concerns.  Followed by arm strength.

Stroud:  Can he play in a muddled pocket.  Product of system.  Leader. (new one who knows)

 

So, if Young gets crushed game 6, then doesn't make it through year 2....what do you do?  The one big ole fear came true, and you have egg on your face.

If Stoud can't read the defense, can't stand up to the rush....well same thing.

If Stroud get's injured, or Young can't really see the field...it's a little different, IMO.

[stan786]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

The biggest fears of each QB are:

Young:  Size and injury concerns.  Followed by arm strength.

Stroud:  Can he play in a muddled pocket.  Product of system.  Leader. (new one who knows)

 

So, if Young gets crushed game 6, then doesn't make it through year 2....what do you do?  The one big ole fear came true, and you have egg on your face.

If Stoud can't read the defense, can't stand up to the rush....well same thing.

If Stroud get's injured, or Young can't really see the field...it's a little different, IMO.

Yeah that’s fair I guess I think if they do fail it’ll be a mix of a number of things for each of them. I just think end of the day Fitterer probably needs to either hit with this guy or if not find the guy within the rookie contract period, generally missing with the first pick isn’t something you recover from.

[frankw]

52 minutes ago, stan786 said:

No because they are so hyper focused on Young, Strouds got a Teddy Bridgewater build which hadn’t proven out to success.

Oh no you didn't lol