One of the WORSE case scenarios happened for Fox...

[AceMan]

I think John Fox has totally sealed his fate with Carolina...he WILL be gone next year.

There are multiple reasons...

1.) "Gives us the best chance to win."

Okay, I think we all can agree that Moore looked better than Jake. I thought his performance was about a B- . That 66-yard pass to Smith was a huge statement. It wasn't perfect, but it was good enough...way better than anything Jake has chucked up this year. Now, Fox looks like an even bigger idiot for keeping Delhomme in. The best case scenario would have been if Moore struggled with Fox's ultra conservative gameplan. Then, Fox would be able to justify starting Jake a bit. But, it turned out that Fox/Davidson looked like complete fools for hampering our offense so much. It was several times during the game my friends and I was left wondering why we stopped Moore when he was getting into the groove of the game. But then I remembered, we do the same thing with DeAngelo Williams....

2.) Starting his guys

This was another issue I wondered today. Godfrey pretty much started today. WTF?!? I was wondering why the heck Martin was even on special teams...Again, Fox puts in the guy HE wants to start. Godfrey was going to start this game(play majority of the snaps) either way. I think Fox figured he could start Godfrey now instead of last week since he wouldn't get harped on by the media/fanbase since most of us were discussing our playoff chances being dashed or Delhomme failing. To me, there was no excuse as to why Martin was on special teams and Godfrey wasn't....Godfrey played good, but is still a liability in pass coverage. (Why the hell isn't Barnidge starting?!)

3.) Stadium Woes

I'm pretty sure J. Richardson is displeased with the "stale" aura around our team. It is so painful to watch Panther football right now. From some of the posts you guys made, it seems like the life is sucked out of our stadium. Cheap tickets...casual fans attending now...I'm sure Richardson will shake things up in the offseason this year.

:cheers2: Fire Fox! :cheers2:

[Proudiddy]

You're right for the most part on all 3 counts... As far as Godfrey, I may have been his biggest critic this year, I think his game is pretty much summed up by two words - HOT GARBAGE.

BUT - Yesterday, I have to admit, he looked solid. He played good in coverage and even surprised me by making a solid hit in a receivers back late in the game to jar the ball loose. That being said, he still doesn't look as good as Martin back there, and Martin earned the spot.

And right on with Moore... Anyone who has watched him throw a ball knew the guy had some zip and accuracy to his throws, the problem seemed to be his decision making, well that aspect didn't hinder Jake from holding the starting spot while spewing INTs all over the field... So at that point, we all knew it was time for a switch - all of us except Fox. If he would've made the switch, say even 4 or 5 games ago, we could be firmly in a wild card spot right now... Oh well, can't say we didn't see it coming when heads roll in January.

[faultlessjoint]

I think John Fox has totally sealed his fate with Carolina...he WILL be gone next year.

There are multiple reasons...

1.) "Gives us the best chance to win."

Okay, I think we all can agree that Moore looked better than Jake. I thought his performance was about a B- . That 66-yard pass to Smith was a huge statement. It wasn't perfect, but it was good enough...way better than anything Jake has chucked up this year. Now, Fox looks like an even bigger idiot for keeping Delhomme in. The best case scenario would have been if Moore struggled with Fox's ultra conservative gameplan. Then, Fox would be able to justify starting Jake a bit. But, it turned out that Fox/Davidson looked like complete fools for hampering our offense so much. It was several times during the game my friends and I was left wondering why we stopped Moore when he was getting into the groove of the game. But then I remembered, we do the same thing with DeAngelo Williams....

2.) Starting his guys

This was another issue I wondered today. Godfrey pretty much started today. WTF?!? I was wondering why the heck Martin was even on special teams...Again, Fox puts in the guy HE wants to start. Godfrey was going to start this game(play majority of the snaps) either way. I think Fox figured he could start Godfrey now instead of last week since he wouldn't get harped on by the media/fanbase since most of us were discussing our playoff chances being dashed or Delhomme failing. To me, there was no excuse as to why Martin was on special teams and Godfrey wasn't....Godfrey played good, but is still a liability in pass coverage. (Why the hell isn't Barnidge starting?!)

3.) Stadium Woes

I'm pretty sure J. Richardson is displeased with the "stale" aura around our team. It is so painful to watch Panther football right now. From some of the posts you guys made, it seems like the life is sucked out of our stadium. Cheap tickets...casual fans attending now...I'm sure Richardson will shake things up in the offseason this year.

:cheers2: Fire Fox! :cheers2:

It's called being the head coach. Of course he is going to play the guy he wants to play. That's what head coaches do (unless you work for Al Davis). The issue is whether or not the guy he wants to play is the same as the guy who will give the team the best chance to win.

[Udogg]

Just as their are multiple reason he could be gone, there are multiple(maybe not as many) as why he should stay. I wouldn't bet the farm on him being gone just yet. Especially with the year left on his contract.

[rayzor]

Do NOT take this as a defense of fox. i want him gone as much as anyone...same with the achy jakey. i have a lot of criticism of both but i want them to be vaild. some of you points were ok but there are a couple things i have a problem with.

1.) "Gives us the best chance to win."

i agree that moore should have been given the start long ago. i also feel that we shouldn't have IRed mccown and should have given him the start as well. i thought moore looked good yesterday..not great as there was a lot of room to grow but overall he has the time and ability to learn from mistakes he made. real game experience and more time and reps with the other players will help him overcome some of the things as will work with rip. as pumped as i am about moore's performance, let's remember that it was in a scheme that made it awfully hard to fail.

the game plan was very close to what they used in jake's best games of the year (not that there is much to choose from). against arizona and atlanta (2nd time) they had jake very limited in his throwing and were able to keep mistakes to a minimum. jake had passer ratings of 94.3 and 115.8, 3 TDs and no INTs. it was almost safe enough for david carr to play as QB. it was a good game for him to get his feet wet, gain some confidence in himself, and the team to gain some confidence in him.

hopefully he'll get the start the rest of the season but remember, the competition is going to be much greater. i do think they will loosen their grip on him and see what he can do...eventually. it's going to be a slow process, which it should. he's green and you want to have a very run heavy scheme, limiting the amount of passing done, for any green QB. next week should be pretty good for moore as well. i'm not concerned about their defense as it seems to have fallen apart. i just don't expect them to cut him loose for a while.

point is...that scheme they ran is what gave the team the best chance to win, rather, to not lose. whether it's jake or moore or even feeley, it's conservative foxball. until they loosen things up and moore shows that he really is better (less INT prone) then fox can still take credit for creating a situation that he can win using anyone at QB.

2.) Starting his guys

Again, Fox puts in the guy HE wants to start.

it's HIS team. he can put in whoever he wants to start. you don't have to agree with him as to who he starts just like i don't but of course he's going to be putting in the guys he wants. plus, since it's his team....and the majority of players were brought in by him...aren't they all his guys? this was kind of a silly complaint. agree or don't agree with his choices but thinking he shouldn't put in the guys he wants to or thinks that he will do best is kind of ridiculous.

3.) Stadium Woes

i doubt the seats are cheaper. they are all paid for. whether there are 400 or 40,000 in the seats...PSL owners have already paid for them. they may be cheap for those looking to buy from scalpers but for the most part that isn't going to effect much...at least not this year. empty stands are a problem, though. there is very little excitement surrounding the team right now and that hurts but not as much as concession sales. the apathy surrounding the organization and the low number of concession sales is going to play a huge factor in decisions made in the offseason.

the new president may not be happy with the lack of profit there and the lack of exposure the panthers are getting. the lack of fan support is also going to be driving some decisions as well. the goal in the offseason is going to be to make the team more marketable. that means going after the most high profile and marketable replacements at key positions.

imo, that makes cowher the most likely candidate for HC. that also means forcing the GM (whoever that is) to go after a very marketable QB to generate some excitement. it's obvious that things have plateaued in carolina with things as they are and are on the downswing so the new president will most likely try to get things turned around. this will most likely be the reason we see a change at HC.

[panthers55]

1. More was not that great. I don't think that his performance is a mandate that he is clearly the starter or should have been played earlier. Against anyone but Tampa and we lose that game. He only had 2 drives and 16 points wouldn't have beaten anyone this year.

2. A passer rating of 73 is not much higher than Jake's this year. And other than one pass to Smitty, he was not that accurate nor did he read the defense all that well and go through any progressions. The defense stacked the line and our passing threat did nothing to back them out of that.

3. Who is to say he didn't need all this time with the first string to even play at a minimum level. With the very restricted gameplan it was hard to tell what he can really do. I surely don't think his performance was a problem for Fox nor should he have started much earlier based on that performance.

4. In all fairness, he needs to get more work to be evaluated more accurately. But those who think he did well are clearly biased at this point. He didn't play poorly is a better summation of his game at this time.

[shelbypanther]

Don't forget....Hurney-a is more of an albatross to this franchise than Fox. They both need to hit I-77 northbound.

[AceMan]

I agree with most of what you guys are saying. I'm not saying Moore was a saviour, but I don't think anyone can defend Fox's decision to stick with Jake. Especially, when Jake failed with this same gameplan against Buffalo and struggled against this very same team (Bucs). We will definitely still need to draft QB next year.

When I say Fox starts who he wants...I know that he is the head coach and can put in anyone he wants, but I feel like he doesn't properly evaluate talent sometimes; especially when he commits to a player. I guess this is just my opinion and we can attribute part of this to his stubbornness. If a player is struggling out there...you make adjustments. Fox and adjustments just don't mix. When I say Fox "starts who HE wants", I mean Fox starts whoever he wants regardless of play. He has the right to do it, but I think that is the major reason why he will be fired this season.

Completely agree rayzor, but I think that will be the 2nd biggest reason to fire Fox . More so, it will probably be the biggest reason as to why we would hire Cowher.

[DaveThePanther2008]

RAYZOR GREAT POST....I AM TRACKING WITH YA

:iagree::cheers2:

1. More was not that great. I don't think that his performance is a mandate that he is clearly the starter or should have been played earlier. Against anyone but Tampa and we lose that game. He only had 2 drives and 16 points wouldn't have beaten anyone this year.

2. A passer rating of 73 is not much higher than Jake's this year. And other than one pass to Smitty, he was not that accurate nor did he read the defense all that well and go through any progressions. The defense stacked the line and our passing threat did nothing to back them out of that.

3. Who is to say he didn't need all this time with the first string to even play at a minimum level. With the very restricted gameplan it was hard to tell what he can really do. I surely don't think his performance was a problem for Fox nor should he have started much earlier based on that performance.

4. In all fairness, he needs to get more work to be evaluated more accurately. But those who think he did well are clearly biased at this point. He didn't play poorly is a better summation of his game at this time.

1. WE DID PLAY TAMPA!!!!! You have no idea how he would have played against any other team.

2. He ran the plays that they sent in. 14-20 is pretty accurate 70%. WTF do you want.

3. You think he got enough Reps during the season with the 1st team? You are right it was a restricted game plan but he will do better.

4. You are right about he does need more work to be evaluated. He played Well enough where if we lost, he didn't lose it.

I love the critics. When Manning was 1-15 with Indy in his 1st year. Let me guess you thought he was a Bust!!!! Cut the guy some slack.

Go Panthers

[unicar15]

If Cowher wants the job then I think it is his to take. The stadium would be full every week...