Tony Pauline: CJ Stroud or Anthony Richardson

[OldhamA]

1 hour ago, Fright said:

Keeping our name tied to AR15 is strictly strategical. Stroud is worlds ahead of this guy. If the Texans want AR15 and are afraid we'll take him, we could possibly use this to our advantage to trade back a spot... because no way on God's green earth does anyone think AR15 is better than Stroud.

If the season started tomorrow, sure, but what about who's better 5 years from now?

[Brooklyn 3.0]

1 hour ago, philw5289 said:

I’m good with AR15 at 1. You can’t teach the skills he already has. Our coaching staff can mold him into a great Qb. I love stroud but was it him or all the amazing receivers he played with at OSU?

What skills does he have? That he's fast for a QB? Can jump high for a QB? Jump far for a QB?

That's it. That's why people drool over him. He has nothing else special that other QBs don't. I find it very odd that people think this kid will be able to out run, out jump, and out leap bonafide elite NFL defenses and treat them like play things. Cam could barely do it, Hurts can do it at times, Lamar can do it at times ... but all three of those men are lightyears better than AR is. And all three could do things in college that AR can't. Hoping ... yes hoping our staff can mold him into them is the ultimate gamble.

And the OSU WR thing ... lol. Stroud will be throwing to WRs in the NFL that were good in college. No need to worry about that.

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

The skills that he has are mostly just physical traits.

A couple of teams have gone the route of trying to take physical specimens and train them to be quarterbacks. It hasn't proven to be a good strategy. That's why I'm not a fan of drafting Richardson (or Will Levis, for that matter).

You take the guy who already knows how to play the position. If he's also a great athlete, fine. But having actual quarterback skills will always trump having athletic skills.

This.

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You can make a very compelling argument he's the most talented QB prospect ever.

No, no you can't. Talented at a handful of combine drills? Ok. Talented for a college QB? No.

[Brooklyn 3.0]

8 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

Trading back makes perfect sense if you believe there are multiple QBs that can do the job.  Why wouldn't you trade back one spot for an early 2nd or maybe even the 12th.

This board is torn between Young and Stroud and you have a healthy number of folks that like Richardson best.  Hell, there may even be a Levis guy on here.  

When all is said and done, one of these 4 will be the best QB and well over half of this board will have gotten it wrong.

Trade back one slot with Houston and pick up 34.  Chances are you still get your favorite QB plus a prime spot to grab a WR or TE.

Because we've lost a star WR and next year's first. We have to recoup that PLUS get something great in the deal to trade the pick. You don't trade to the top spot, only to get less in return to trade down.

[Jon Snow]

5 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

I don't think anyone can bitch about whoever we take considering 95% of you have lauded the trade up to get 'their' guy. 

Brother you must have me confused with someone else. I have not advocated for anything other than that whatever they do I hope it is the right decision. I'm just a fan trying to figure out which qb they go with.  I do know that I've been around long enough to know the huddle consensus is always wrong. 

[Wolfcop]

The more I watch Stroud, the more I want him. He has skills that cannot always be taught. The things he lacks can be taught IMO. AR may never become accurate. Heck, Cam had accuracy issues but was worlds better than AR at this point. 

Young would have the edge if he was bigger. There is zero chance I place the hands of my franchise in a 5'10", 185 lb QB. Not with the size and speed of the current defensive players in the NFL. He WILL get hit and I do not see him holding up. For his sake, I hope I am wrong. 

[grimesgoat]

7 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

Because we've lost a star WR and next year's first. We have to recoup that PLUS get something great in the deal to trade the pick. You don't trade to the top spot, only to get less in return to trade down.

We wouldn't be trading back to 9.  We'd essentially be going from 9 to 2.  It would cost 9, 61, 24st, 25 2nd, and DJ.  In return we get 2 and 34.  Not too bad.

Let's say the 34th is equivalent to 61 and the 25 2nd.  That means the #2 pick ended up costing us DJ and next year's first.  Worth it.

Edited March 13, 2023 by grimesgoat
typo

[chknwing]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

who is debating for AR-15? yikes

Reich. he likes BIG QB's  which makes perfect sense small successful qb's in the league are rare.   A bigger qb is more durable and have angles to throw the ball that a smaller qb wouldnt.

[Mr. Scot]

27 minutes ago, Wolfcop said:

The more I watch Stroud, the more I want him. He has skills that cannot always be taught. The things he lacks can be taught IMO. AR may never become accurate. Heck, Cam had accuracy issues but was worlds better than AR at this point. 

Stroud Is the guy who most fits what I want in a quarterback, especially in the accuracy department.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[CPF4LIFE]

55 minutes ago, Wolfcop said:

The more I watch Stroud, the more I want him. He has skills that cannot always be taught. The things he lacks can be taught IMO. AR may never become accurate. Heck, Cam had accuracy issues but was worlds better than AR at this point. 

Young would have the edge if he was bigger. There is zero chance I place the hands of my franchise in a 5'10", 185 lb QB. Not with the size and speed of the current defensive players in the NFL. He WILL get hit and I do not see him holding up. For his sake, I hope I am wrong. 

Murray is a similar build but better athlete than Young and even he hasnt been able to dodge the injury bug. If there wasnt other options i would be all for young but if there is another guy just as good with a better body build for the league imma take that guy. 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Murray is a similar build but better athlete than Young and even he hasnt been able to dodge the injury bug. If there wasnt other options i would be all for young but if there is another guy just as good with a better body build for the league imma take that guy. 

Murray has been said to absolutely hate getting hit, so much so that some think it affects his performance.

[CL1022]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not at all...

If you like more than one player equally, you could move back, gain additional picks to make your roster even better and still get one of the guys you wanted.

Don't know that anything like that will happen but if it did, I'd call that pretty smart.

We may have increased the value of these top picks by taking #1 by compressing the range of where QBs will be taken. Before the trade, the top 4 could have gone 2, 4 and anywhere from 5-9. Now, it's nearly certain that 3 QBs will go top 4, and that last one standing could be very valuable to those 5-8 teams still needing one. Could this have been part of the thought process all along? Regardless, I'd love to hear what everyone thinks of this hypothetical:

What if we traded down until there was only 1 QB left, at least to 5 you'd think. According to most draft charts, that would be worth about three 2nds, which are valued roughly equal to future 1sts. If we could net something equivalent to three 2024 1sts to take the leftovers at 5 or 6, the pick itself would be free. 

We'd have traded DJ + a 2025 2nd for two extra 1sts in 2024 AND moved up from 9 to 5 this year. 

All-in, we'd have a rookie top 5 QB, three 1st rounders and our own 2nd next year, and our 2025 1st. If the leftovers, presumably Levis, ends up hitting, then we are loaded for the future. If he busts, we're better positioned to trade up for our guy next year. This would give us two shots at getting what we want, with the 1st option just being better, but the 2nd option no worse off than we were before. 

None of these guys are Luck or Lawrence level sure things. If we get a chance, give me a free mulligan if needed and if not, we can cash our mulligan in next year and build a dynasty for the next decade. 

[AggieLean]

Give me Stroud. He’s been the guy I’ve wanted for months now. I would be ok with Young, but we shouldn’t even be looking at AR. Not at the 1 spot. I was fine with grabbing him at 9, but at 1, it needs to be Stroud or Young.

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

Stroud and Young may be our ticket to the playoffs and possibly the SB. If we did that trade just to get Richardson we just might as well keep rebuilding for a few more years missing out on being a playoff/SB caliber team.

[Mr. Scot]

14 minutes ago, CL1022 said:

We may have increased the value of these top picks by taking #1 by compressing the range of where QBs will be taken. Before the trade, the top 4 could have gone 2, 4 and anywhere from 5-9. Now, it's nearly certain that 3 QBs will go top 4, and that last one standing could be very valuable to those 5-8 teams still needing one. Could this have been part of the thought process all along? Regardless, I'd love to hear what everyone thinks of this hypothetical:

What if we traded down until there was only 1 QB left, at least to 5 you'd think. According to most draft charts, that would be worth about three 2nds, which are valued roughly equal to future 1sts. If we could net something equivalent to three 2024 1sts to take the leftovers at 5 or 6, the pick itself would be free. 

We'd have traded DJ + a 2025 2nd for two extra 1sts in 2024 AND moved up from 9 to 5 this year. 

All-in, we'd have a rookie top 5 QB, three 1st rounders and our own 2nd next year, and our 2025 1st. If the leftovers, presumably Levis, ends up hitting, then we are loaded for the future. If he busts, we're better positioned to trade up for our guy next year. This would give us two shots at getting what we want, with the 1st option just being better, but the 2nd option no worse off than we were before. 

None of these guys are Luck or Lawrence level sure things. If we get a chance, give me a free mulligan if needed and if not, we can cash our mulligan in next year and build a dynasty for the next decade. 

I don't know if it'll happen but I definitely believe that it's in the discussion.