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Tony Pauline: CJ Stroud or Anthony Richardson

TheSpecialJuan

By TheSpecialJuan,
in Carolina Panthers

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Carl Spackler Grand Master

Carl Spackler

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

But it order for what you said to happen ... we have to get a WR as good as Moore and a 1st rd pick before we even begin to celebrate over the haul we'd get trading down. I said it in another thread, trading down makes zero sense. We'd need to get BACK a first AND get an elite WR as part of the deal ... which as some of you are thinking, would include "additional picks".

No team is going to give us a WR, and more than one first, just to get in the top slot. One more time: In order for this dream scenario to work, we'd need to swap firsts with someone (but still be able to get a QB), get a first in 2024 (to cover the one we lost), a first in 2025 (to "gain" something), possibly more picks ... oh, and a stud WR ... JUST to make everything worth it.

We're picking first.

Forget it. Fitterer could trade down two spots, pick up an extra seventh-rounder, snag Levis, set him up for success in the USFL in two years, and half this board would still consider it a genius move.

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App Panther Experienced

App Panther

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13 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Levis at 1 would make Anthony Bennett in 2013 or JaMarcus Russell in 2007 look like Peyton Manning in 1998 or LeBron James in 2003. That's a pick you make if you're an owner trying to tank fan support enough to relocate.

The 2013 NBA draft class did not have a clear #1, in fact Bennett was probably considered one of the safer picks at that time.

Ironically, the best player out of that year was also the most raw and unrefined which the Bucks were willing to take a chance on. 

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grimesgoat Experienced

grimesgoat

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8 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

But it order for what you said to happen ... we have to get a WR as good as Moore and a 1st rd pick before we even begin to celebrate over the haul we'd get trading down. I said it in another thread, trading down makes zero sense. We'd need to get BACK a first AND get an elite WR as part of the deal ... which as some of you are thinking, would include "additional picks".

No team is going to give us a WR, and more than one first, just to get in the top slot. One more time: In order for this dream scenario to work, we'd need to swap firsts with someone (but still be able to get a QB), get a first in 2024 (to cover the one we lost), a first in 2025 (to "gain" something), possibly more picks ... oh, and a stud WR ... JUST to make everything worth it.

We're picking first.

Trading back makes perfect sense if you believe there are multiple QBs that can do the job.  Why wouldn't you trade back one spot for an early 2nd or maybe even the 12th.

This board is torn between Young and Stroud and you have a healthy number of folks that like Richardson best.  Hell, there may even be a Levis guy on here.  

When all is said and done, one of these 4 will be the best QB and well over half of this board will have gotten it wrong.

Trade back one slot with Houston and pick up 34.  Chances are you still get your favorite QB plus a prime spot to grab a WR or TE.

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OldhamA Grand Master

OldhamA

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1 hour ago, Fright said:

Keeping our name tied to AR15 is strictly strategical. Stroud is worlds ahead of this guy. If the Texans want AR15 and are afraid we'll take him, we could possibly use this to our advantage to trade back a spot... because no way on God's green earth does anyone think AR15 is better than Stroud.

If the season started tomorrow, sure, but what about who's better 5 years from now?

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Brooklyn 3.0 Grand Master

Brooklyn 3.0

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1 hour ago, philw5289 said:

I’m good with AR15 at 1. You can’t teach the skills he already has. Our coaching staff can mold him into a great Qb. I love stroud but was it him or all the amazing receivers he played with at OSU?

What skills does he have? That he's fast for a QB? Can jump high for a QB? Jump far for a QB?

That's it. That's why people drool over him. He has nothing else special that other QBs don't. I find it very odd that people think this kid will be able to out run, out jump, and out leap bonafide elite NFL defenses and treat them like play things. Cam could barely do it, Hurts can do it at times, Lamar can do it at times ... but all three of those men are lightyears better than AR is. And all three could do things in college that AR can't. Hoping ... yes hoping our staff can mold him into them is the ultimate gamble.

And the OSU WR thing ... lol. Stroud will be throwing to WRs in the NFL that were good in college. No need to worry about that.

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

The skills that he has are mostly just physical traits.

A couple of teams have gone the route of trying to take physical specimens and train them to be quarterbacks. It hasn't proven to be a good strategy. That's why I'm not a fan of drafting Richardson (or Will Levis, for that matter).

You take the guy who already knows how to play the position. If he's also a great athlete, fine. But having actual quarterback skills will always trump having athletic skills.

This.

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You can make a very compelling argument he's the most talented QB prospect ever.

No, no you can't. Talented at a handful of combine drills? Ok. Talented for a college QB? No.

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Brooklyn 3.0 Grand Master

Brooklyn 3.0

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8 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

Trading back makes perfect sense if you believe there are multiple QBs that can do the job.  Why wouldn't you trade back one spot for an early 2nd or maybe even the 12th.

This board is torn between Young and Stroud and you have a healthy number of folks that like Richardson best.  Hell, there may even be a Levis guy on here.  

When all is said and done, one of these 4 will be the best QB and well over half of this board will have gotten it wrong.

Trade back one slot with Houston and pick up 34.  Chances are you still get your favorite QB plus a prime spot to grab a WR or TE.

Because we've lost a star WR and next year's first. We have to recoup that PLUS get something great in the deal to trade the pick. You don't trade to the top spot, only to get less in return to trade down.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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5 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

I don't think anyone can bitch about whoever we take considering 95% of you have lauded the trade up to get 'their' guy. 

Brother you must have me confused with someone else. I have not advocated for anything other than that whatever they do I hope it is the right decision. I'm just a fan trying to figure out which qb they go with.  I do know that I've been around long enough to know the huddle consensus is always wrong. 

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Wolfcop Grand Master

Wolfcop

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The more I watch Stroud, the more I want him. He has skills that cannot always be taught. The things he lacks can be taught IMO. AR may never become accurate. Heck, Cam had accuracy issues but was worlds better than AR at this point. 

Young would have the edge if he was bigger. There is zero chance I place the hands of my franchise in a 5'10", 185 lb QB. Not with the size and speed of the current defensive players in the NFL. He WILL get hit and I do not see him holding up. For his sake, I hope I am wrong. 

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grimesgoat Experienced

grimesgoat

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

Because we've lost a star WR and next year's first. We have to recoup that PLUS get something great in the deal to trade the pick. You don't trade to the top spot, only to get less in return to trade down.

We wouldn't be trading back to 9.  We'd essentially be going from 9 to 2.  It would cost 9, 61, 24st, 25 2nd, and DJ.  In return we get 2 and 34.  Not too bad.

Let's say the 34th is equivalent to 61 and the 25 2nd.  That means the #2 pick ended up costing us DJ and next year's first.  Worth it.

Edited by grimesgoat
typo
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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Wolfcop said:

The more I watch Stroud, the more I want him. He has skills that cannot always be taught. The things he lacks can be taught IMO. AR may never become accurate. Heck, Cam had accuracy issues but was worlds better than AR at this point. 

Stroud Is the guy who most fits what I want in a quarterback, especially in the accuracy department.

Edited by Mr. Scot
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CPF4LIFE Grand Master

CPF4LIFE

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55 minutes ago, Wolfcop said:

The more I watch Stroud, the more I want him. He has skills that cannot always be taught. The things he lacks can be taught IMO. AR may never become accurate. Heck, Cam had accuracy issues but was worlds better than AR at this point. 

Young would have the edge if he was bigger. There is zero chance I place the hands of my franchise in a 5'10", 185 lb QB. Not with the size and speed of the current defensive players in the NFL. He WILL get hit and I do not see him holding up. For his sake, I hope I am wrong. 

Murray is a similar build but better athlete than Young and even he hasnt been able to dodge the injury bug. If there wasnt other options i would be all for young but if there is another guy just as good with a better body build for the league imma take that guy. 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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4 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Murray is a similar build but better athlete than Young and even he hasnt been able to dodge the injury bug. If there wasnt other options i would be all for young but if there is another guy just as good with a better body build for the league imma take that guy. 

Murray has been said to absolutely hate getting hit, so much so that some think it affects his performance.

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