Tony Pauline: CJ Stroud or Anthony Richardson

[@bonafidebanter]

20 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

There's a difference between being a QB that can Run and a Running QB. Mahomes is the former. Hurts started out as the later and has progressed to the former. 

My biggest issue with the running QBs is the increased injury risk. They're fun as hell while healthy, but sooner or later they get hurt, and then there's no telling if they'll be able to transition to the QB that can run category.

And yes, QBs can get hurt on regular passing plays, of course and they might not take a ton of big hits while running, but it seems like a compounding issue the more hits they take. 

Kind of like:

• QB 1 takes 2 sacks and one huge hit standing in the pocket over the course of a game
• QB 2 takes 1 sack, gets hit running the ball 12 times, then takes one huge hit standing in the pocket over the course of a game.

Sure the 12 hits might not have been big, but he was still hit 11 more times than QB1. Those hits add up over time.

Thanks, all great points but we were discussing QB skills. What exactly are QB skills? I was saying that running and escaping the pocket are very important SKILLS as well. Remember when Harden said that all Giannis did was run and dunk the ball but becoming an MVP? Those are the vibes that I get when I hear talk about "QB skills" and QBs that can actually move. Hell, I'm old enough to remember Steve Young having ALL of the skills to be an elite QB. 

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

I genuinely try to call it both ways as I see it, but I lack blind optimism and, since 2019, my initial stance leans heavily on pessimism. I get why people don't like to read that, but those beliefs and stances are very much based on recent history and, in some cases, a hunch.

Like, I don't see CJ Stroud in a Panther jersey. I just can't see it. I can, however, see Young in one.

After seeing how they assembled this staff this offseason, I have some faith restored in the franchise.  Tepper made a mistake with Rhule, admitted it, and is now trying to do things the right way.  I can't hate on him for that.  If he truly stays out of the way (and he seems to have so far, remember he wanted Fields) and lets Reich do his job I think we will draft the right guy (Stroud). 

[Carl Spackler]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

After seeing how they assembled this staff this offseason, I have some faith restored in the franchise.  Tepper made a mistake with Rhule, admitted it, and is now trying to do things the right way.  I can't hate on him for that.  If he truly stays out of the way (and he seems to have so far, remember he wanted Fields) and lets Reich do his job I think we will draft the right guy (Stroud). 

I guess my fear is that Reich falls in love with Levis, who is Ryan Leaf's illegitimate son, or Richardson, a boom-or-bust player he didn't need to trade up to 1 to get in the first place. I'm placing heavy pressure on that choice, because the only offensive weapon was given up, and if it's not Stroud, it's 100x worse than the Sean Gilbert trade.

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, Carl Spackler said:

I guess my fear is that Reich falls in love with Levis, who is Ryan Leaf's illegitimate son, or Richardson, a boom-or-bust player he didn't need to trade up to 1 to get in the first place. I'm placing heavy pressure on that choice, because the only offensive weapon was given up, and if it's not Stroud, it's 100x worse than the Sean Gilbert trade.

I get it.  If we take someone like Levis I think it would be a trade back down to acquire some more capital.  I would be very skeptical of Levis at 1 after giving up all of that capital.  We HAVE to hit on this pick and the highest floor is Stroud IMO.  

[PanthersGTI]

I will not be shocked or mad if they take AR15 #1. They have the teachers to do it. If they believe he has the work ethic and attitude to hone his fundamentals and he shows he can process on the whiteboard. 

[Carl Spackler]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

I get it.  If we take someone like Levis I think it would be a trade back down to acquire some more capital.  I would be very skeptical of Levis at 1 after giving up all of that capital.  We HAVE to hit on this pick and the highest floor is Stroud IMO.  

Levis at 1 would make Anthony Bennett in 2013 or JaMarcus Russell in 2007 look like Peyton Manning in 1998 or LeBron James in 2003. That's a pick you make if you're an owner trying to tank fan support enough to relocate.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Carl Spackler

[Carl Spackler]

5 minutes ago, PanthersGTI said:

I will not be shocked or mad if they take AR15 #1. They have the teachers to do it. If they believe he has the work ethic and attitude to hone his fundamentals and he shows he can process on the whiteboard. 

The thing with Richardson is he can't throw, and he plays a position where you need to be able to throw accurately. He's insanely gifted with athleticism, but you could put a super-athletic WR back there, idk, somebody like a DJ Moore, and he could also evade tacklers and not throw the ball well. I also don't think Richardson has the fortitude of a Cam, who could block out all the noise and rise above adversity.

And there's nothing a QB for the David Tepper-owned Carolina Panthers will face more than adversity, especially when he peers into the sports bar across the street and sees the losers at the bar, then realizes he's in the locker room and those are his WRs.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Carl Spackler

[Brooklyn 3.0]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not at all...

If you like more than one player equally, you could move back, gain additional picks to make your roster even better and still get one of the guys you wanted.

Don't know that anything like that will happen but if it did, I'd call that pretty smart.

But it order for what you said to happen ... we have to get a WR as good as Moore and a 1st rd pick before we even begin to celebrate over the haul we'd get trading down. I said it in another thread, trading down makes zero sense. We'd need to get BACK a first AND get an elite WR as part of the deal ... which as some of you are thinking, would include "additional picks".

No team is going to give us a WR, and more than one first, just to get in the top slot. One more time: In order for this dream scenario to work, we'd need to swap firsts with someone (but still be able to get a QB), get a first in 2024 (to cover the one we lost), a first in 2025 (to "gain" something), possibly more picks ... oh, and a stud WR ... JUST to make everything worth it.

We're picking first.

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Levis at 1 would make Anthony Bennett in 2013 or JaMarcus Russell in 2007 look like Peyton Manning in 1998 or LeBron James in 2003. That's a pick you make if you're an owner trying to tank fan support enough to relocate.

[OldhamA]

1 hour ago, rmoneyg35 said:

Yeah like Burrow did at LSU?

I mean Burrow was a couple of years older, so take that with a grain of salt, but his stats blew Stroud's out of the water. 

5,671 yards, 60 TDs, 6 INTs.

vs

3,688 yards, 41 TDs, 6 INTs. 

[Carl Spackler]

6 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

But it order for what you said to happen ... we have to get a WR as good as Moore and a 1st rd pick before we even begin to celebrate over the haul we'd get trading down. I said it in another thread, trading down makes zero sense. We'd need to get BACK a first AND get an elite WR as part of the deal ... which as some of you are thinking, would include "additional picks".

No team is going to give us a WR, and more than one first, just to get in the top slot. One more time: In order for this dream scenario to work, we'd need to swap firsts with someone (but still be able to get a QB), get a first in 2024 (to cover the one we lost), a first in 2025 (to "gain" something), possibly more picks ... oh, and a stud WR ... JUST to make everything worth it.

We're picking first.

Forget it. Fitterer could trade down two spots, pick up an extra seventh-rounder, snag Levis, set him up for success in the USFL in two years, and half this board would still consider it a genius move.

[App Panther]

13 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Levis at 1 would make Anthony Bennett in 2013 or JaMarcus Russell in 2007 look like Peyton Manning in 1998 or LeBron James in 2003. That's a pick you make if you're an owner trying to tank fan support enough to relocate.

The 2013 NBA draft class did not have a clear #1, in fact Bennett was probably considered one of the safer picks at that time.

Ironically, the best player out of that year was also the most raw and unrefined which the Bucks were willing to take a chance on. 

[grimesgoat]

8 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

But it order for what you said to happen ... we have to get a WR as good as Moore and a 1st rd pick before we even begin to celebrate over the haul we'd get trading down. I said it in another thread, trading down makes zero sense. We'd need to get BACK a first AND get an elite WR as part of the deal ... which as some of you are thinking, would include "additional picks".

No team is going to give us a WR, and more than one first, just to get in the top slot. One more time: In order for this dream scenario to work, we'd need to swap firsts with someone (but still be able to get a QB), get a first in 2024 (to cover the one we lost), a first in 2025 (to "gain" something), possibly more picks ... oh, and a stud WR ... JUST to make everything worth it.

We're picking first.

Trading back makes perfect sense if you believe there are multiple QBs that can do the job.  Why wouldn't you trade back one spot for an early 2nd or maybe even the 12th.

This board is torn between Young and Stroud and you have a healthy number of folks that like Richardson best.  Hell, there may even be a Levis guy on here.  

When all is said and done, one of these 4 will be the best QB and well over half of this board will have gotten it wrong.

Trade back one slot with Houston and pick up 34.  Chances are you still get your favorite QB plus a prime spot to grab a WR or TE.

[OldhamA]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

I didn't know there was so many qb experts on the huddle.  

I don't think anyone can bitch about whoever we take considering 95% of you have lauded the trade up to get 'their' guy.