What would you ask from Houston?

[Jon Snow]

Just now, Davidson Deac II said:

But he said if we are ok with either one.  

I would prefer Stroud just because I think he has NFL size, but if the staff feels that both Young and Stroud are roughly even, and the Texans wanted to trade, why not?

This entire debate is contingent on Huston honestly telling us who they want to drsft without having to divulge who we want. That is so silly that I cannot even continue this debate.  And the team has said repeatedly that they like all 4. They will have 1 selected by draft time. This is all about trying to recoup some of those picks and not having to make a choice at qb. They would rather have someone hand them one by default.  It's so silly that I cannot continue this anymore.  Please carry on.

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

I negated nothing. You just aren’t capable of understanding. The Texans would have to tell us who they’re taking.  Where did I say something that negated the Texans being honest about who they’d take? We wouldn’t say who we’re taking.  It’s not dumb just because you can’t comprehend it. I’m not saying we’d be ok with either. You just aren’t very good at reading comprehension. I said very clearly we would know who we want, but we would have to hide the fact that we have a preference. It’s really not that hard to understand, you just don’t want to.

First of all, how many times have I said this and you apparently can't comprehend it.... THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT TO TELL A TEAM WHO YOU ARE TAKING IF MAKING A PICK SWAP.... IT'S NOT A THING

And again, I've told you why that's not a thing, but apparently, to use your words, you haven't been able to comprehend that very logical and obvious reasoning.

It's not a thing because anytime teams do a back-to-back pick swap, it's because of a 3rd team trading with the team with the higher pick, and the team with the second pick doesn't want them that to happen.  

Teams DO NOT do back-to-back pick swaps where both teams want a player of the same position, it just doesn't happen, and if it does happen, it's not in the first round, especially not the first and second pick, and especially not involving QBs.  And even beyond all of that, if it were to happen, again.... THE TEAM TRADING UP DOES NOT TELL THE TEAM TRADING DOWN WHO THEY ARE TAKING BECAUSE DOING SO WOULD KILL THE POTENTIAL TRADE FOR ONE OF THE TWO TEAMS.

Because as we've said numerous times, if they did that, there is no value in either team making that trade at that point.  The team trading back isn't doing it unless the team trading up is taking a player they don't want.

Which then means if the team trading up tells the team trading back who they'd take, and then the team trading back still wants to make the trade, the team trading up then knows with 100% certainty that the team ahead of them isn't taking the player they want, and thus it removes any need to give up assets to move up.

It really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp.  If you want to take Mr Scot's argument that we could tell them we're 100% fine with either QB and if they have a clear cut #1, that we'd then make the swap with them, that's totally fair and valid.

But that's not the argument you're making, you're just making an absolutely asinine argument that doesn't hold water.

[Davidson Deac II]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

This entire debate is contingent on Huston honestly telling us who they want to drsft without having to divulge who we want. That is so silly that I cannot even continue this debate.  And the team has said repeatedly that they like all 4. They will have 1 selected by draft time. This is all about trying to recoup some of those picks and not having to make a choice at qb. They would rather have someone hand them one by default.  It's so silly that I cannot continue this anymore.  Please carry on.

Its not contingent on that at all.  The move would be contingent on us not caring whether we draft Young or Stroud.

I am not saying we would or should do it.  Or that we don't have a favorite.  But if we TRULY didn't have a favorite, I could see us trading down a single spot to pick up a extra pick or two.  

[Stuart Smith]

4 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

Why give them the first choice among the qb's? You've already traded up so use that to pick whoever you want. Don't overthink this.

If you have done the work to get your guy be very careful. Trading to the number 2 pick to gain a pick could backfire if you don’t control it. 

[tukafan21]

11 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

Again, both teams WOULDN’T know who the other is taking. The team in control (the Panthers) would NOT let it be known who they are taking. The whole thing would be predicated upon the Panthers masking their preference. The Texans would have to tell us who they’re taking in order for the Panthers to entertain a trade. They don’t want to reveal it? No trade. They reveal it and then go back on their word?  Pariahs. No one will deal with them in the future. Not worth the risk.  No team has ever done that and I doubt they ever will. 
 

Again, I don’t think it will happen just because it would only take one slip up to tip off the Texans who we’d want and sink the whole thing. But it is possible. 

Dude, I'll just say it, you're flat out dumb.

It's never happened because it's not a thing, it's just not, for many reasons.

Hell, just look at it this way, let's say a team says we're taking Player A but then takes Player B.  In your scenario here, you're saying they're not persona non grata and nobody is going to deal with them.

So what happens with that team then says, "the Panthers are lying, we always said we're taking Player B, they're just trying to make us look bad"

Now nobody knows who is telling the truth and who is lying, thus neither team is now the pariah that you are making them out to be.

Stop being stupid

Edited March 12, 2023 by tukafan21

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Hmm, what are the chances this fanciful topic was nothing more than a way for a sports writer to generate clicks and appear busy for his employer without putting in too much effort?

[tukafan21]

3 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Its not contingent on that at all.  The move would be contingent on us not caring whether we draft Young or Stroud.

I am not saying we would or should do it.  Or that we don't have a favorite.  But if we TRULY didn't have a favorite, I could see us trading down a single spot to pick up a extra pick or two.  

Two different arguments

Yours here is completely valid (not the side of I'd take, I'd rather just take the guy we prefer from the start, but that's just personal preference).

This guy is arguing that we'd only make the trade if the Texans tell us who they want to take and that it's not the guy we prefer.

Which is just beyond asinine

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Its not contingent on that at all.  The move would be contingent on us not caring whether we draft Young or Stroud.

I am not saying we would or should do it.  Or that we don't have a favorite.  But if we TRULY didn't have a favorite, I could see us trading down a single spot to pick up a extra pick or two.  

If they didn't have a favorite why even trade up in the first place.  You don't make a move like this unless you want to ensure you get first choice.  They will have a favorite out of the 4 by the end of pro days.

[MHS831]

Personally, on draft night, I think we should trade the #1 pick to Da Bears for the #9 and #61 pick, a first in 2024, a second in 2025, and maybe a WR like DJ Moore.  

[Davidson Deac II]

18 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

If they didn't have a favorite why even trade up in the first place.  You don't make a move like this unless you want to ensure you get first choice.  They will have a favorite out of the 4 by the end of pro days.

Fwiw, I am just playing devils advocate here.

But, if you like them both, and you know you aren't going to get either one at nine, then you trade up.  And given that the Texans weren't going to trade down, Chicago was the only option.  

That being said, we probably do have a favorite and will likely stick at 1 unless the Texans make some absurd offer.  

Edited March 12, 2023 by Davidson Deac II

[MHS831]

This entire thread is to say, "The Carolina Panthers are on the clock"

[Jon Snow]

Just now, Davidson Deac II said:

Fwiw, I am just playing devils advocate here.

Well, if you like them both, and you know you aren't going to get either one at nine, then you trade up.  And given that the Texans weren't going to trade down, Chicago was the only option.  

That being said, we probably do have a favorite and will likely stick at 1 unless the Texans make some absurd offer.  

It just wouldn't make sense to give up your first chance and choice at qb at turning your franchise around just to gain back a few extra picks.  There's no positive way to spin that one.

[tukafan21]

6 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Fwiw, I am just playing devils advocate here.

But, if you like them both, and you know you aren't going to get either one at nine, then you trade up.  And given that the Texans weren't going to trade down, Chicago was the only option.  

That being said, we probably do have a favorite and will likely stick at 1 unless the Texans make some absurd offer.  

Well yes, this is possibly correct.

There is a chance that we don't currently have a favorite but we like 2 of them WAY more than the others.  That's why you trade up to #1 now because the Texans weren't going to trade out of the #2 spot unless it was up to #1.

But by draft night, there is a 0% chance that they don't prefer one over the other, even if by the slightest margin.

At that point, there isn't an offer the Texans could or would make that would make us take the risk of them not taking the guy we prefer.  And I don't care how much you're okay with either of them going into the process, if you have your choice of either, you take the one you prefer, you don't take whichever is left to you so you can pick up a 2nd round pick.

Again, look at it the opposite way, if we had the #2 pick, would you be willing to package that with a 2nd rounder to move up to #1 and take the guy you prefer?

100% you would when it comes to the QB position.

Which is why I still say the only way you do it, is if you somehow find out with 1000% certainty who the Texans want, and if it's not the guy we want, you do it for #2, #12, and 2024 1st.  And that price is really just on the off chance that they make a last minute change of mind and at least we then picked up 2 first rounders to get the guy we didn't prefer.

But any realistic trade they would make with us to move up to #1 to get the guy they want isn't worth us not just taking whoever we want.

[csx]

5 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

Why give them the first choice among the qb's? You've already traded up so use that to pick whoever you want. Don't overthink this.

To watch people have emotional breakdowns in typed words on here