What would you ask from Houston?

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

There’s no chance they wouldn’t. If a team were to lie about that, it would destroy their credibility to every other team and GM and no one would ever trade with them again. They would get the NFL scarlet letter.  There’s no legal way to force them to take who they said they’d take, but the fallout from the deception would ruin careers. 

Are you kidding? If both teams know who they are taking and they are not the same guy what incentive does Huston have to trade? Tuka is right. You are not making any sense. 

[rayzor]

20 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Fitterer at the NFL Combine:  

"You go get the guy you want. If you have conviction, you go get him. It's pretty simple that way. If you don't know and you're going to give all these resources to go up and get it, you're hurting your team in the long run. You better be right. You better have conviction if you do move up."

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/gm-report/quick-hits-everything-scott-fitterer-said-at-the-nfl-combine-2023

Fitterer today (supposedly):

Meh, six of one, half a dozen of the other, doesn't make all that much difference either way.

You make that trade because you know who you want and you don't want to take any chance of losing him.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Houston needs so much more than just a QB.  Regardless of who they pick they are going to have a tough 2023.  I'd take #2 and their 1st next year which most likely will be top 10.  Maybe a 3rd in 2024. 

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

There’s no chance they wouldn’t. If a team were to lie about that, it would destroy their credibility to every other team and GM and no one would ever trade with them again. They would get the NFL scarlet letter.  There’s no legal way to force them to take who they said they’d take, but the fallout from the deception would ruin careers. 

Again, just another beyond stupid argument.

You're looking at everything in a vacuum and making a rather bad assumption that teams only trade back 1 spot when the other team tells you who they're going to draft and they have to follow through with it because if not, it's a career ender.

Because again, I'd be willing to bet a lot of money there has never been a situation where teams made back-to-back pick swaps and then both teams took players of the same position.  When those swaps happen, it's not because the team trading up told the other team who they were going to take as a contingency to making the trade, it's because they know with 100% certainty that the team isn't taking a player of the position they want.

When those swaps happen, it's because they're doing it so a third team doesn't swoop in to make a trade and take the player the team picking second would want.  

THAT'S NOT A POSSIBILITY HERE

Why is that so hard to understand?

[tukafan21]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

Are you kidding? If both teams know who they are taking and they are not the same guy what incentive does Huston have to trade? Tuka is right. You are not making any sense. 

He's trying to make two arguments at the same time, but the problem with them is that they're conflicting ideas.

First he's trying to say that we'll make the trade because we'd "trick" the Texans into thinking we'd be okay with either of the QB's.  Which is a valid argument in itself and the one Mr Scot is making, whether you want to do that or not is the discussion to be had.

But then he's also saying we'd only make the trade, even if we did that "trick" successfully, if the Texans tell us who they're planning to take.  And he's then compounding that insanity by saying they can't go back on it because it's a scarlett letter that would ruin careers.

And that's where his argument completely falls apart, from both the Panthers and the Texans side of it as the Panthers only would do it if they still get their guy, but if that's true, then the Texans wouldn't do it as they'd then know they'd get their guy at #2.

It's honestly baffling that he can't realize that at this point.

 

[rippadonn]

3 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Are you?

The futures of these two QBs are not written in stone.

When I look at Bryce Young and CJ Stroud I don't see equal outcomes.

One or both could fail to realize their potential.  Chances are good at least one won't.

If I'm the Panthers, I'd want to make that final decision, rather than leaving it up to Houston to decide my team's fate.

Own it, Panthers.

Own your decision. 

Shout it from the mountain top! No deals, no calls. That's our guy. Show some gumption, confidence.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, rayzor said:

I'd have a meltdown because considering all they did to trade up to #1 it would be stupid to trade back down. 

Seriously, I would in an instant lose faith in this coaching staff. That just would serm like a move by a group that was more interested in playing with draft picks like they were a game than building a team. 

You trade up to #1 because you've got a damn plan for the player you have in mind. 

The truth is they already know who they want. They knew at the combine. Any comments to the contrary from the team is just at playing the game. They may have some durme diligence they feel they need to go through, but I don't doubt for a minute they know in their gut who it is they want.

Losing faith in a staff that hasn't coached a single game (hell, hasn't coached a single play) because they handled the draft differently than you would have?

They have a draft process: interviews, visits, meetings, etc. All indications are there going to put full effort into that process...and we'll they should.

And to be clear, they don't have to play any mind games. They have the #1 pick.

They could go out tomorrow, issue a press release and tell the entire world "we're picking Player X" and nobody could do jack sh-t about it.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[tukafan21]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Losing faith in a staff that hasn't coached a single game (hell, hasn't coached a single play) because they handled the draft differently than you would have?

And to be clear, they don't have to play any mind games. They have the #1 pick.

They could go out tomorrow, issue a press release and tell the entire world "we're picking Player X" and nobody could do jack sh-t about it.

Remember when that was a thing?

When teams would work out contracts with players before the draft and announce who they were taking first well in advance.

I realize it's not really a thing anymore thanks to the rookie scale, that was really to prevent players from holding out if taken #1, but just weird to think that used to be a thing.

[Mr. Scot]

56 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

One last time because you obviously don’t understand how these things work and have no interest in knowing. The trade would depend on the Panthers making the Texans think we could go either way and therefore a risk of taking the guy they want. The Panthers taking the trade would just tell the Texans that we’d be ok with either guy.  That’s it. I’m done trying to help you understand a point other people were making, especially since I don’t really think this trade will happen because it has too many points of failure. But it IS possible if you understand how NFL draft trades work. 

...or think we'd be willing to trade the pick to somebody else who might take the guy they want.

I'd add one thing I think would be funny if they did negotiate would be to offer a fifth round pick to make up for the one the NFL confiscated

[JawnyBlaze]

51 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

No dude, you're just being dumb now, because your other posts are also saying any trade is contingent on the Texans being honest on who they'd pick and that they couldn't then go back on it and take the other player.

Which literally negates what you just said, it's one or the other, not both.

What you're arguing here is what Mr Scot has been arguing, that we'd be okay with either player and that's why we'd make the trade.  Which in itself is a totally fair and valid argument to take, just not a trade that I'd personally make in the end.

I was responding to you saying that we'd only make the trade if the Texans told us who they'd take, and then we'd only make the trade if it's not the guy we prefer... literally the dumbest thing I've ever read on a message board, and that's saying something.

I negated nothing. You just aren’t capable of understanding. The Texans would have to tell us who they’re taking.  Where did I say something that negated the Texans being honest about who they’d take? We wouldn’t say who we’re taking.  It’s not dumb just because you can’t comprehend it. I’m not saying we’d be ok with either. You just aren’t very good at reading comprehension. I said very clearly we would know who we want, but we would have to hide the fact that we have a preference. It’s really not that hard to understand, you just don’t want to.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Remember when that was a thing?

When teams would work out contracts with players before the draft and announce who they were taking first well in advance.

I realize it's not really a thing anymore thanks to the rookie scale, that was really to prevent players from holding out if taken #1, but just weird to think that used to be a thing.

You still can.

It's not to your advantage if you're thinking of trading the pick, but if you're not you can do pretty much anything.

The NFL doesn't like for teams to be that though because they like drama.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[Davidson Deac II]

4 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

You are sacrificing your chance to choose the first qb and quite possibly the one you wanted. That's a big something that is being ignored. To hell with extra picks. Don't overthink this.

But he said if we are ok with either one.  

I would prefer Stroud just because I think he has NFL size, but if the staff feels that both Young and Stroud are roughly even, and the Texans wanted to trade, why not?

[Riverboat Ron]

4 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I'd ask for 2 and 12 but I'd settle for 2 and 33. A 3rd is no reason to move out of 1.

I wouldn’t mind:

Texans- #1, #39, #93

Panthers- #2, #12, #73

 

Texans get Bryce Young, we get Stroud, use #12 to get either Quentin Johnston or Jaxon Smith-Njigba.

[JawnyBlaze]

53 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Are you kidding? If both teams know who they are taking and they are not the same guy what incentive does Huston have to trade? Tuka is right. You are not making any sense. 

Again, both teams WOULDN’T know who the other is taking. The team in control (the Panthers) would NOT let it be known who they are taking. The whole thing would be predicated upon the Panthers masking their preference. The Texans would have to tell us who they’re taking in order for the Panthers to entertain a trade. They don’t want to reveal it? No trade. They reveal it and then go back on their word?  Pariahs. No one will deal with them in the future. Not worth the risk.  No team has ever done that and I doubt they ever will. 
 

Again, I don’t think it will happen just because it would only take one slip up to tip off the Texans who we’d want and sink the whole thing. But it is possible.