W/O the GA game do u take CJ?

[onmyown]

it’s strange to me people think Stroud fits Reich’s preferences more…it just isn’t true.

i said this months ago that if you listen to Reich’s interviews, style and him speak Young actually fits the mold almost like a glove

though granted, if you look at who Reich has worked with in the past you will see more Stround types. maybe that’s the confusion.

and i am 100% pro Stroud, but i would not be made about Young 

[stan786]

I'd be interested in actual data that shows size is a serious injury issue as well. Feels like a bunch of feelings more than anything concrete. The only weight/injury data I've been able to find argues lighter players get hurt less, but the QB weight scale cuts off at 210 so it would be disingenuous to throw out there like it proves anything with Young. I can name a ton of small QBs who didnt have injuries derail their career and like one (Manziel) where it could be attributed to it, but thats just remembering names i'm sure i have to be missing some.

Edited March 11, 2023 by stan786

[jb2288]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

Oh stop that do not drag Cam Newton into this you're acting like he was wheelchairbound after 2018. It's his arm. Other than that he survived a great deal of punishment considering how many times he rushed the football for us. That is specifically because of his size advantage.

And yes if you think the size thing is "overblown" you clearly do have an agenda. Don't get upset when people point that out to you.

He was shot by 2018 via a dominant shoulder injury. He wasn’t wheelchair bound not sure where you got that, he was just physically shot for his game. I don’t know what else to say there, if you don’t believe punishing NFL defenders for 7 years partially attributed to that with the Steelers game basically sealing his fate, we won’t agree on anything. This coaching staff would not use whoever we draft the way Ron made Cam save us with physicality from the position.  
 

Just to be sure I’m clear, because I believe BY can play the position at his size = I have an agenda? I don’t agree but fine if you think that. I’m also not upset at all, as stated multiple times I’d be happy with Stroud. I think BY is the better player but if our professional coaching staff that has been doing this for 30+ years thinks it CJ I’m all on board. I’m sorry that upsets you  

 

[frankw]

3 minutes ago, jb2288 said:

He was shot by 2018 via a dominant shoulder injury. He wasn’t wheelchair bound not sure where you got that, he was just physically shot for his game. I don’t know what else to say there, if you don’t believe punishing NFL defenders for 7 years partially attributed to that with the Steelers game basically sealing his fate, we won’t agree on anything. This coaching staff would not use whoever we draft the way Ron made Cam save us with physicality from the position.  
 

Just to be sure I’m clear, because I believe BY can play the position at his size = I have an agenda? I don’t agree but fine if you think that. I’m also not upset at all, as stated multiple times I’d be happy with Stroud. I think BY is the better player but if our professional coaching staff that has been doing this for 30+ years thinks it CJ I’m all on board. I’m sorry that upsets you  

 

Cam Newton endured historic usage overall and beyond his rushing he made work things within the pocket with some truly horrific olinemen. Make no mistake he took his share of punishment within the pocket too. His frame helped.

Young has already dealt with a shoulder injury btw. I'm sure you'll downplay that.

"Young is listed a 6-foot, 194 pounds.

That is historically small for a first-round quarterback. The last time a quarterback was taken in the first round who was the same size or smaller was 1960 – Richie Lucas, at 6-foot, 190 pounds, went No. 4 to Washington. Lewis played two seasons in the NFL and threw 99 passes.

Since 2000, nine quarterbacks have appeared in an NFL game listed at 6-1, 200 pounds or smaller: Jeff Garcia, Tim Rattay, Thaddeus Lewis, Doug Flutie, Tyler Huntley, Kellen Moore, John Wolford, Ty Detmer and Koy Detmer. They have started a total of 177 games (106 by Garcia) and appeared in five Pro Bowls (4 for Garcia, 1 for Flutie).

There is, effectively, almost no useful historical data on a quarterback Young's size."

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2023/01/23/nfl-draft-should-teams-worry-about-no-1-qb-prospect-bryce-youngs-size/69833733007/

There is an article that does a fairly good job of summarizing the present day conundrum. There really isn't enough data for a QB of Young's size to say if he will or won't have a long career. But the comparable QB's in his height and weight range in league history are concerning. At the very least if you draft him it will always remain in the back of your mind.

But dismiss all this if it makes you feel better 🫡

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

I've been posting since the Fall about how I want CJ Stroud

[jb2288]

6 minutes ago, frankw said:

Cam Newton endured historic usage overall and beyond his rushing he made work things within the pocket with some truly horrific olinemen. Make no mistake he took his share of punishment within the pocket too. His frame helped.

Young has already dealt with a shoulder injury btw. I'm sure you'll downplay that.

"Young is listed a 6-foot, 194 pounds.

That is historically small for a first-round quarterback. The last time a quarterback was taken in the first round who was the same size or smaller was 1960 – Richie Lucas, at 6-foot, 190 pounds, went No. 4 to Washington. Lewis played two seasons in the NFL and threw 99 passes.

Since 2000, nine quarterbacks have appeared in an NFL game listed at 6-1, 200 pounds or smaller: Jeff Garcia, Tim Rattay, Thaddeus Lewis, Doug Flutie, Tyler Huntley, Kellen Moore, John Wolford, Ty Detmer and Koy Detmer. They have started a total of 177 games (106 by Garcia) and appeared in five Pro Bowls (4 for Garcia, 1 for Flutie).

There is, effectively, almost no useful historical data on a quarterback Young's size."

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2023/01/23/nfl-draft-should-teams-worry-about-no-1-qb-prospect-bryce-youngs-size/69833733007/

There is an article that does a fairly good job of summarizing the present day conundrum. There really isn't enough data for a QB of Young's size to say if he will or won't have a long career. But the comparable QB's in his height and weight range in league history are concerning. At the very least if you draft him it will always remain in the back of your mind.

But dismiss all this if it makes you feel better 🫡

Oh weird I thought cherry picking data means you have an agenda

[frankw]

It's a beautiful Saturday and @poundaway has nothing to do but lurk and spam poo reactions lol.

You are a legit psychopath dude.

[frankw]

8 minutes ago, jb2288 said:

Oh weird I thought cherry picking data means you have an agenda

What data are you providing? Just typing "because Russell Wilson and Drew Brees" and saying there done doesn't count.

[top dawg]

3 hours ago, frankw said:

OP is fully on the Bryce Young wagon. This "just asking questions" bit about Stroud is easy to see through. If you are not willing to make this same kind of thread to discuss Young's cons then just say you want Young over him and stop the charade.

There is really no need to start a con thread for Young.  It's his size. But for that, he'd be the consensus top QB. Mind you, I really don't have a dog in the fight, I'm just telling you what I have heard time and time and time again. If you want to nitpick, then maybe sometimes he holds onto the ball too long or checks down early, but his comes are pretty minor from a play standpoint. He's laid it all on the field. But, the size for many will be a valid concern. That's his ONLY real knock.

[stan786]

14 minutes ago, frankw said:

What data are you providing? Just typing "because Russell Wilson and Drew Brees" and saying there done doesn't count.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/weight-and-injuries

This doesn’t prove anything as I’ve said previously but it’s interesting data.

Why would lighter players get hurt less? For QBs some thoughts could be most lighter QBs don’t get featured as rushing threats so it reduces the quantity of hits taken. One of those you feel more comfortable putting larger players into harms way.

Could it do with general forces when they hit the turf, big guys falling so have a lot of force behind it.

No idea all of this is just theories there’s just not enough data on guys Young’s size to decide if it’s a big negative or not, I could look at this data and say it’s a feature not a bug but that would be too far.

In terms of the list of players you posted above I’ll first note technically Bryce is gonna get listed over 200 after that combine weigh in which moves him up a bucket, most players around there probably have their weight inflated though tbh.

It becomes more of a knock on his profile than anything definitive though and in general he’s been a very healthy guy, he missed one game due to that shoulder and came out the next week and took a beating in probably the best game of the Season tape wise for him vs Tennessee and looked no worse for wear.

I just don’t understand why people who aren’t worried about his size as much get so downplayed in this thread. There’s as much data out there for both camps. I get he’s somewhat of an outlier but the rest of his skills make up for that by miles imo.

[GOAT]

I would probably prefer Bryce due to his success vs teams like Georgia.

but what CJ did was prove that he can go toe to toe with the best.

Georgia defense is the closest thing you'll get to an NFL defense.

Most of those guys will be playing on Sunday's.

[stan786]

4 minutes ago, GOAT said:

I would probably prefer Bryce due to his success vs teams like Georgia.

but what CJ did was prove that he can go toe to toe with the best.

Georgia defense is the closest thing you'll get to an NFL defense.

Most of those guys will be playing on Sunday's.

I’m pretty excited to watch them both in the NFL, I think they both have pretty great traits to be successful.

[SZ James (banned)]

13 minutes ago, stan786 said:

 

I just don’t understand why people who aren’t worried about his size as much get so downplayed in this thread. There’s as much data out there for both camps. I get he’s somewhat of an outlier but the rest of his skills make up for that by miles imo.

Not @ you but because the pro-young crowd will not listen to counterfactuals.

The only defense against his size itt was that the refs are somehow going to shield him from getting steamrolled by a 300lb lineman or award us an automatic first down after the fact. At least you linked a study to go on.

 

[stan786]

Just now, SZ James (banned) said:

Not @ you but because the pro-young crowd will not listen to counterfactuals.

The only defense against his size itt was that the refs are somehow going to shield him from getting steamrolled by a 300lb lineman or award us an automatic first down after the fact. At least you linked a study to go on.

 

Fair enough and that makes sense. I think it’s a pretty complex thing and I don’t blame people for not being comfortable with it, I think it’s a good example of the same arguments going through NFL front offices right now.