1st for Stroud

[MechaZain]

No complaints here if we land Stroud but if we're going all in for the #1 I want Young. Everyone is letting his size overshadow the fact that the kid's game is as surefire as it gets. He will be great if he can stay healthy and there's little doubt about that. 

I do think CJ has the potential to be great but if you're going to eat the cost of trading up to #1 it should be for the sort of rare talent that only comes around once a blue moon and that's Young. He will be Drew Brees if he holds up and that's worth betting the farm on.

[Varking]

23 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

No complaints here if we land Stroud but if we're going all in for the #1 I want Young. Everyone is letting his size overshadow the fact that the kid's game is as surefire as it gets. He will be great if he can stay healthy and there's little doubt about that. 

I do think CJ has the potential to be great but if you're going to eat the cost of trading up to #1 it should be for the sort of rare talent that only comes around once a blue moon and that's Young. He will be Drew Brees if he holds up and that's worth betting the farm on.

Or he’ll be Pat White. 

[stan786]

13 minutes ago, Varking said:

Or he’ll be Pat White. 

I mean Pat White was an athlete trying to play QB. He wasn’t actually good at the QB stuff or developing when got waived. I feel like saying Young could be Pat White is like saying CJ Stroud could be Josh Rosen. Yeah technically all these players could bust but in terms of comps these seem pretty unlikely.

[MechaZain]

If Young's talent was his athleticism we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Pat White wouldn't get taken in the first this year let alone first overall.

[frankw]

2 hours ago, MechaZain said:

No complaints here if we land Stroud but if we're going all in for the #1 I want Young. Everyone is letting his size overshadow the fact that the kid's game is as surefire as it gets. He will be great if he can stay healthy and there's little doubt about that. 

I do think CJ has the potential to be great but if you're going to eat the cost of trading up to #1 it should be for the sort of rare talent that only comes around once a blue moon and that's Young. He will be Drew Brees if he holds up and that's worth betting the farm on.

He's smaller than Corral who got pummeled last year in preseason.

The draft needs to hurry up.

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, frankw said:

He's smaller than Corral who got pummeled last year in preseason.

The draft needs to hurry up.

Corral is like 4 inches taller and the same weight.  He is built like a high schooler and already had injury issues his last season.  I'd prefer Stroud, but Young would definitely intrigue me.  He is the best at reading defenses and making adjustments IMO.  Honestly if you give him a couple inches he would be the next Burrow/Luck/Lawrence type draft pick.  

[frankw]

5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Corral is like 4 inches taller and the same weight.  He is built like a high schooler and already had injury issues his last season.  I'd prefer Stroud, but Young would definitely intrigue me.  He is the best at reading defenses and making adjustments IMO.  Honestly if you give him a couple inches he would be the next Burrow/Luck/Lawrence type draft pick.  

Honestly I think people are going daffy convincing themselves he'll survive in the NFL. I'd support him as the pick but history is history and it is not on his side. And we have to do the annual thing again in the coming months where we acknowledge our oline is better but still a work in progress. Speaking of injuries. Isn't Young coming off one to his throwing shoulder? No flashbacks there.

https://www.nationalfootballpost.com/columns/features/the-nfls-best-short-quarterbacks-of-alltime/

[ForJimmy]

4 minutes ago, frankw said:

Honestly I think people are going daffy convincing themselves he'll survive in the NFL. I'd support him as the pick but history is history and it is not on his side. And we have to do the annual thing again in the coming months where we acknowledge our oline is better but still a work in progress. Speaking of injuries. Isn't Young coming off one to his throwing shoulder? No flashbacks there.

https://www.nationalfootballpost.com/columns/features/the-nfls-best-short-quarterbacks-of-alltime/

Yeah it was pretty minor.  I think he missed one game and played through the injury a week later against UT and played very well while taking many hits.  Injuries are unfortunately going to happen, hell we had one of the biggest, baddest QBs in the league have his carreer end short, Luck was also a good size and had to retire early.  Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't call many QB runs with a smaller QB, but Young excels in navigating the pocket.  I get he is an outlier, but the league has changed a lot to protect these QBs as well.  Look how long Brady was able to play and Rodgers is what 38 and getting traded to another team and he isn't huge for a QB, Brees played until he was like 40.  

[stan786]

10 minutes ago, frankw said:

Honestly I think people are going daffy convincing themselves he'll survive in the NFL. I'd support him as the pick but history is history and it is not on his side. And we have to do the annual thing again in the coming months where we acknowledge our oline is better but still a work in progress. Speaking of injuries. Isn't Young coming off one to his throwing shoulder? No flashbacks there.

https://www.nationalfootballpost.com/columns/features/the-nfls-best-short-quarterbacks-of-alltime/

Just for discussion sake (I think his size is a concern) other than Corral what other small QBs have had their careers cut short due to injury, kinda feels like the other side of the what athletic freak QBs with bad accuracy have been successful where the sample size is pretty low because only like Josh Allen has gone high enough to have a shot.

 

Usually small QBs were forced to WR or not drafted in the past, much like big athletic QB prospects who weren’t refined.  So the samples are a lot smaller and it’s hard to actually prove they can’t improve.

 

The Flutie, Russ, Brees have had plenty long Careers and Murray’s big injury was a non contact knee injury which happens to everyone. I do think Murray’s running broke him down a bit but that’s not Bryce’s game.

I just wonder if these narratives are more because only outliers at these sizes skill levels get drafted high in the NFL or if there is really an accurate example of light QBs getting serious injuries at a higher level.

I’m concerned at both Young’s size and Deep Ball but I do like a lot of things he brings and I’ve been trying to find examples of players who have been killed by injuries and struggled because of how low the sample is. 

[frankw]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah it was pretty minor.  I think he missed one game and played through the injury a week later against UT and played very well while taking many hits.  Injuries are unfortunately going to happen, hell we had one of the biggest, baddest QBs in the league have his carreer end short, Luck was also a good size and had to retire early.  Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't call many QB runs with a smaller QB, but Young excels in navigating the pocket.  I get he is an outlier, but the league has changed a lot to protect these QBs as well.  Look how long Brady was able to play and Rodgers is what 38 and getting traded to another team and he isn't huge for a QB, Brees played until he was like 40.  

It's that time of year for hopium I get it man I'm with you. But we don't have the Bama oline and we won't be going up against scrub college teams full of updrafted players. There is plenty to like with Young but Cam Luck and Brady are 6'4 and up and Rodgers is 6'2. If Russell Wilson Kyler Murray Sunny Jurgenson Doug Flutie and Eddie LeBaron are the comparable 5'11 and below success stories we can at least acknowledge the odds.

[frankw]

7 minutes ago, stan786 said:

Just for discussion sake (I think his size is a concern) other than Corral what other small QBs have had their careers cut short due to injury, kinda feels like the other side of the what athletic freak QBs with bad accuracy have been successful where the sample size is pretty low because only like Josh Allen has gone high enough to have a shot.

 

Usually small QBs were forced to WR or not drafted in the past, much like big athletic QB prospects who weren’t refined.  So the samples are a lot smaller and it’s hard to actually prove they can’t improve.

 

The Flutie, Russ, Brees have had plenty long Careers and Murray’s big injury was a non contact knee injury which happens to everyone. I do think Murray’s running broke him down a bit but that’s not Bryce’s game.

I just wonder if these narratives are more because only outliers at these sizes skill levels get drafted high in the NFL or if there is really an accurate example of light QBs getting serious injuries at a higher level.

I’m concerned at both Young’s size and Deep Ball but I do like a lot of things he brings and I’ve been trying to find examples of players who have been killed by injuries and struggled because of how low the sample is. 

They're all big risks but I'd opt for AR if this is my only other option.

[stan786]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

They're all big risks but I'd opt for AR if this is my only other option.

Yeah I mean honestly I’d argue both AR and Young will be outliers if they are successful in the NFL, but I also am not scared of taking outlier if they have some elite skill sets, which I think they both do in certain areas.

I’m just not writing off either because their profiles don’t have big samples of success. 
 

I definitely think Stroud is the safest but the film outside of the Georgia game do concern me a bit with how bad he can be under pressure, I wish I could draft specifically Peach Bowl Stroud.

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

It's that time of year for hopium I get it man I'm with you. But we don't have the Bama oline and we won't be going up against scrub college teams full of updrafted players. There is plenty to like with Young but Cam Luck and Brady are 6'4 and up and Rodgers is 6'2. If Russell Wilson Kyler Murray Sunny Jurgenson Doug Flutie and Eddie LeBaron are the comparable 5'11 and below success stories we can at least acknowledge the odds.

Yeah my point was the 6'4" athletic guys in Cam/Luck had short careers.  Then you have Brees with a long career and Russ is still going at his age.  I'm just not sure there is a direct correlation with size and injury in the NFL.  I might even go as far as the say the biggest guys take more hits (draw less flags and are more prone to try to run through contact) and possibly are more often injured.  Trey Lance is another big QB and can't stay healthy.  Even looking at WRs, Julio was huge and couldn't stay healthy, Steve Smith was relatively healthy (I remember he broke his arm, but that is kind of a fluke injury) and played a while, Gronk seemed to always be injured as well.  While short QBs aren't common as they have become a newer trend, I'm not sure there is a direct correlation with height and injury.

I definitely understand your concern though.  It's why I have Stroud over Young in my ranking, but if we get Young I won't lose any sleep over it and will be pretty excited. 

[stan786]

8 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah my point was the 6'4" athletic guys in Cam/Luck had short careers.  Then you have Brees with a long career and Russ is still going at his age.  I'm just not sure there is a direct correlation with size and injury in the NFL.  I might even go as far as the say the biggest guys take more hits (draw less flags and are more prone to try to run through contact) and possibly are more often injured.  Trey Lance is another big QB and can't stay healthy.  Even looking at WRs, Julio was huge and couldn't stay healthy, Steve Smith was relatively healthy (I remember he broke his arm, but that is kind of a fluke injury) and played a while, Gronk seemed to always be injured as well.  While short QBs aren't common as they have become a newer trend, I'm not sure there is a direct correlation with height and injury.

I definitely understand your concern though.  It's why I have Stroud over Young in my ranking, but if we get Young I won't lose any sleep over it and will be pretty excited. 

There are some studies that even show per game injuries are higher for heavier players at their positions, but I’m not sure how many sub 200 lb QBs would be in that study. 
 

It’s just interesting to look at, I’m not dying to draft a bunch of 180 lb players but are we over stating the risk? We probably won’t know till we draft him, which is scary.