Saints Sign Derek Carr to 4 year deal.

[WhoKnows]

4 hours ago, 45catfan said:

We are signing a veteran QB, I doubt any of the rookies would be starting for us, at least not the first portion of the season.  Frank knows the first year development for a rookie QB is a monumental task, and we have a decent enough roster not to piss away winnable games while said rookie still has his training wheels firmly attached.

If we have to sign a vet because a QB we take top 10 is not ready to start, that would be disappointing. A vet like Brissett doesn’t make us a contender, play the rookie. 

[Evil Hurney]

Looks like Spotrac has the deets:

What the contract could look like with maximum restructuring.

• [2023] $7.2M cap charge
• [2024] $13.2M cap charge after converting salary to bonus (as is the way for the Saints)
• [2025] $33.2M cap charge with another salary to bonus restructure (assuming 2024 restructure)
• [2026] $48.2M cap charge with another salary to bonus restructure (assuming 2024 & 2025 restructure)
• [2027 UFA]  $48.2M dead money

If cut in March 2025, $49.6M dead money (assuming 2024 restructure). I don't think this can be split.

If cut in 2026, $46.4M dead money (assuming 2024 & 2025 restructure). This can be split over 2 years if designated as post June.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Evil Hurney

[Jackie Lee]

11 minutes ago, Evil Hurney said:

Looks like Spotrac has the deets:

What the contract could look like with maximum restructuring.

• [2023] $7.2M cap charge
• [2024] $13.2M cap charge after converting salary to bonus (as is the way for the Saints)
• [2025] $33.2M cap charge with another salary to bonus restructure (assuming 2024 restructure)
• [2026] $48.2M cap charge with another salary to bonus restructure (assuming 2024 & 2025 restructure)
• [2027 UFA]  $48.2M dead money

If cut in March 2025, $49.6M dead money (assuming 2024 restructure). I don't think this can be split.

If cut in 2026, $46.4M dead money (assuming 2024 & 2025 restructure). This can be split over 2 years if designated as post June.

OTC basically has it as a 2 year $60M guaranteed deal, if they cut him in 2025 they'll owe $5.7M dead cap for 3 years which isn't horrible

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Roster Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
Total		$111,500,000	$28,500,000	$10,000,000		$31,500,000		$150,000,000
2023	32	$1,500,000	$5,700,000	$0		$1,500,000		$7,200,000	3.2%		$37,200,000	($30,000,000)
2024	33	$30,000,000	$5,700,000	$0		$30,000,000		$35,700,000	13.9%		$35,700,000	$0
2025	34	$30,000,000	$5,700,000	$10,000,000		$0		$45,700,000	16.2%		$5,700,000	$40,000,000
2026	35	$50,000,000	$5,700,000	$0		$0		$55,700,000	18.1%		$5,700,000	$50,000,000
2027	36	Void	$5,700,000	Void		Void		$5,700,000	--		$5,700,000	$0

[Evil Hurney]

Just now, Jackie Lee said:

OTC basically has it as a 2 year $60M guaranteed deal, if they cut him in 2025 they'll owe $5.7M dead cap for 3 years which isn't horrible

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Roster Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
Total		$111,500,000	$28,500,000	$10,000,000		$31,500,000		$150,000,000
2023	32	$1,500,000	$5,700,000	$0		$1,500,000		$7,200,000	3.2%		$37,200,000	($30,000,000)
2024	33	$30,000,000	$5,700,000	$0		$30,000,000		$35,700,000	13.9%		$35,700,000	$0
2025	34	$30,000,000	$5,700,000	$10,000,000		$0		$45,700,000	16.2%		$5,700,000	$40,000,000
2026	35	$50,000,000	$5,700,000	$0		$0		$55,700,000	18.1%		$5,700,000	$50,000,000
2027	36	Void	$5,700,000	Void		Void		$5,700,000	--		$5,700,000	$0

Dead cap accelerates. All $17.1M ($5.7M x 3) goes on the cap once cut. There would also be the other $10M GTD since he would have been on the roster in 2024.

If they don't restructure (unlikely), it's a dead cap of $27.1M to cut him in March 2025.

[Day1PanthersFan]

7 hours ago, blackcat said:

Good, we don't need another reclamation project.

Funny saying that since our coach is also a reclamation project 

[CPantherKing]

25 minutes ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

I don't think Carr is a terrible QB, I just don't think he has enough to get a team to the supberowl. Analytics and stats are great to go off of, but there are the "intangibles" that's not accounted for. Kirk, Rodgers, and Dak have some great stats, etc, but why do they perennial drop out of the playoffs? 

I understand. Most people think SB winning QBs are seasonsed playoff QBs with a reputation for winning. Unfortunately, this is not true. Those QBs are dynasty QBs. Look at the playoff record of any QB winning their first SB.

This century (excluding QBs drafted by their SB winning coach): Dilfer 1-1 (28), Johnson 1-3 (34), P.Manning 3-6/11-13 (30/39), Brees 1-2 (30), Rodgers 0-1 (27), Foles 0-1 (28), Brady 30-11 (43), and Stafford 0-3 (33). Average age 32/33.

Going back to the 80s, Jim Plunkett was a bust 1st round pick. He was a reserve for the Raiders for 2 years and then won his 1st of 2 SBs at the age of 33 while never seeing the playoffs. Fran Tarkenton never saw the playoffs until he was 33 after being sent packing by the Vikings and then sent back to the Vikings when the Giants gave up on him. He never won the SB, but he went to 3 SBs over 4 seasons (6-4 playoff record).

This has been consistent for QBs among every decade of the SB era.

It's the coaches that we want to have the playoff wins under their belt and been to championships.

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, CPantherKing said:

I understand. Most people think SB winning QBs are seasonsed playoff QBs with a reputation for winning. Unfortunately, this is not true. Those QBs are dynasty QBs. Look at the playoff record of any QB winning their first SB.

This century (excluding QBs drafted by their SB winning coach): Dilfer 1-1 (28), Johnson 1-3 (34), P.Manning 3-6/11-13 (30/39), Brees 1-2 (30), Rodgers 0-1 (27), Foles 0-1 (28), Brady 30-11 (43), and Stafford 0-3 (33). Average age 32/33.

Going back to the 80s, Jim Plunkett was a bust 1st round pick. He was a reserve for the Raiders for 2 years and then won his 1st of 2 SBs at the age of 33 while never seeing the playoffs. Fran Tarkenton never saw the playoffs until he was 33 after being sent packing by the Vikings and then sent back to the Vikings when the Giants gave up on him. He never won the SB, but he went to 3 SBs over 4 seasons (6-4 playoff record).

This has been consistent for QBs among every decade of the SB era.

It's the coaches that we want to have the playoff wins under their belt and been to championships.

two words

 

aqueel glass

 

he can lead us out of the darkness

[GRWatcher]

 

5 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

Problem is we didn’t trade Burns and we have the 9th pick. We’re aren’t in the best spot to own our destiny so to speak. I like the coaching staff a lot but there are no guarantees and Carr to the Saints may make us impulsive.

I don't see Fitts or Reich as the impulsive kind. I think they're more the pragmatic planning type, considering all possible outcomes. Playing chess. I'm not worried about impulse.

Now if it was former-coach-not-to-be-named and Hurney, then I'd worry big time.

[L-TownCat]

And the Saints take the early lead.

[Chief Keek]

Dodged that one

[Mr. Scot]

Related...

 

[45catfan]

1 hour ago, WhoKnows said:

If we have to sign a vet because a QB we take top 10 is not ready to start, that would be disappointing. A vet like Brissett doesn’t make us a contender, play the rookie. 

Absolutely not. So you are want to lose games while the rookie gets his feet wet?  I mean, if you want to get a QB next year too, I guess accumulating loses makes sense.

[WhoKnows]

11 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Absolutely not. So you are want to lose games while the rookie gets his feet wet?  I mean, if you want to get a QB next year too, I guess accumulating loses makes sense.

How about Marvin Harrison Jr? Joe Burrow’s first draft  after he joined the Bengals got him Chase.

We are competing for a title with a rookie. We don’t have a complete team yet. I’d rather the rookie get experience and if he loses more than a vet early, who cares?

Now, we are likely throwing all our picks in the mix so draft will be a lot less impact anyway.

Did it matter to the Bills, Bengals or Jax or LAC (Tua was hurt so can’t use him) to have them start as rookies?

[45catfan]

6 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

How about Marvin Harrison Jr? Joe Burrow’s first draft  after he joined the Bengals got him Chase.

We are competing for a title with a rookie. We don’t have a complete team yet. I’d rather the rookie get experience and if he loses more than a vet early, who cares?

Now, we are likely throwing all our picks in the mix so draft will be a lot less impact anyway.

Did it matter to the Bills, Bengals or Jax or LAC (Tua was hurt so can’t use him) to have them start as rookies?

Did it matter to the Jets, Browns, Bears, 49ers, Jets (part deux), Giants etc, etc, etc...?  You can cherry pick all you want, I ain't biting.

You play a guy IF he's ready.  Stroud and Young could be, be I'm not sold on them.  Levis or AR will fall flat on their face if they start day 1.  They aren't ready.  

Edited March 7, 2023 by 45catfan