Saints Sign Derek Carr to 4 year deal.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I get the personal connection with Dennis Allen.

That said, Allen might be the one NFL coach who makes Matt Rhule look competent.

To me this contradicts the narrative coming from Carr's camp of a guy with a chip on his shoulder looking to prove something to the Raiders.

What it says to me is that Carr's priority was getting paid. 

Saints simply have too many glaring issues when it comes to salary cap and coaching not to notice. 

[CamWhoaaCam]

And cab people stop complaining about the cap?

 

Saints once again sign a player to big money with no cap space available.

 

 

[PantherPhann89]

5 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Not sure how they have the money to do that, they were mortgaged to the hilt. He's a good QB but man, the cupboards are bare there.

That team is going to be living a post-Mardi Gras hangover for the next few seasons.

 

They seem to do it year after year...

[Seltzer]

1 minute ago, PantherPhann89 said:

They seem to do it year after year...

Enron's finances looked great until they didn't. 

Everyone thought Bernie Madoff was a genius until he wasn't.

You can navigate a lot of financial situations in this world with accounting tricks, but at some point math is still math.  You can't make 2+2 not equal 4 forever.

Go to overthecap and actually dig into the numbers.  There are no easy fixes the next few years with the Saints cap.  The cap has been kicked to the point I honestly wonder how they will field a 53 man roster in a couple of years if they face even an average amount of injuries and need replacements.

Every team in the league could do what the Saints have.  They haven't b/c eventually you do have to pay the piper.

I'll give credit to Dennis Allen for trying to buy some job security.  He was the only one who was willing to clean up Sean Payton's mess, and it will be even harder to find someone to clean up the bigger mess he is going to leave.

I really am surprised someone from the outside is not advising Gayle Benson better.  In all of sports, I can't ever remember this level of financial malfeasance being celebrated.

[PantherPhann89]

1 minute ago, Seltzer said:

Enron's finances looked great until they didn't. 

Everyone thought Bernie Madoff was a genius until he wasn't.

You can navigate a lot of financial situations in this world with accounting tricks, but at some point math is still math.  You can't make 2+2 not equal 4 forever.

Go to overthecap and actually dig into the numbers.  There are no easy fixes the next few years with the Saints cap.  The cap has been kicked to the point I honestly wonder how they will field a 53 man roster in a couple of years if they face even an average amount of injuries and need replacements.

Every team in the league could do what the Saints have.  They haven't b/c eventually you do have to pay the piper.

I'll give credit to Dennis Allen for trying to buy some job security.  He was the only one who was willing to clean up Sean Payton's mess, and it will be even harder to find someone to clean up the bigger mess he is going to leave.

I really am surprised someone from the outside is not advising Gayle Benson better.  In all of sports, I can't ever remember this level of financial malfeasance being celebrated.

1. It's either being covered up, which I can't imagine why.

2. It hasn't been investigated yet. 

3. They're guys enough to continue whatever their doing without drawing the right/wrong attention...

[Seltzer]

8 minutes ago, PantherPhann89 said:

1. It's either being covered up, which I can't imagine why.

2. It hasn't been investigated yet. 

3. They're guys enough to continue whatever their doing without drawing the right/wrong attention...

My point wasn't to imply that they were doing anything illegal or unethical, just that to Saints fans and outside observers they may seem like geniuses now, but the underlying math simply doesn't support that position over the long term.

In business, after exhausting all legal accounting tricks, there is a temptation to move onto something illegal to continue the charade and keep the house of cards from collapsing.

There is obviously more transparency with NFL contracts, so they can't do something illegal per se without people knowing about it.

However, the cracks in this approach have already been showing.  The Saints had injuries this year and had very little depth to deal with it.  That is already a direct reflection of their cap management.

They are rapidly approaching a scenario where their entire team will consist of a few high-priced players making a lot of money, draft picks (controller salaries), UDFA's and league-minimum veterans, and an ungodly amount of dead money for players not on their team (and some who haven't been on the team for years).

Any GM who thinks that is a good long-term strategy, especially now with a 17-game season (and potentially an 18-game season) is not fit to be in that position.  Depth matters more now than ever before, and they are employing a strategy that simply doesn't value depth.

My biggest point is this, there are a litany of reasons the other 31 teams in the league don't follow this strategy unless they are nearing the end of a SB window.

The Saints are not geniuses for bucking this trend.  They are selling their fanbase a house of cards that is getting ready to collapse and take them years to recover from.

[Khyber53]

27 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

Enron's finances looked great until they didn't. 

Everyone thought Bernie Madoff was a genius until he wasn't.

You can navigate a lot of financial situations in this world with accounting tricks, but at some point math is still math.  You can't make 2+2 not equal 4 forever.

Go to overthecap and actually dig into the numbers.  There are no easy fixes the next few years with the Saints cap.  The cap has been kicked to the point I honestly wonder how they will field a 53 man roster in a couple of years if they face even an average amount of injuries and need replacements.

Every team in the league could do what the Saints have.  They haven't b/c eventually you do have to pay the piper.

I'll give credit to Dennis Allen for trying to buy some job security.  He was the only one who was willing to clean up Sean Payton's mess, and it will be even harder to find someone to clean up the bigger mess he is going to leave.

I really am surprised someone from the outside is not advising Gayle Benson better.  In all of sports, I can't ever remember this level of financial malfeasance being celebrated.

Sooner or later, that Voodoun Mambo is going to come back and get her pound of flesh for the magic she did to get the Saints to that one Super Bowl.  The swamp, it always claims back its own...

[CPantherKing]

4 hours ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

Now we will see if it was really the Raiders sucking or Carr sucking? 

Well he did need to lead 10 GWDs over the last 2 seasons with the Gruden fiasco and getting Josh McDaniels as his HC. The Raiders are a 3 win team without Carr and the Panthers would have been an 11/12 win team with Carr and Wilks for a full year.

Saints are a 9/10 win team with Carr.

38.5% GWD in the past 2 seasons. He is at the prime age for a SB contending QB. 65% comp  tells you he makes good decisions more often than most NFL QBs. 70% is elite which he was near the last 2 seasons in Gruden's system. He is one of the most accurate passers in the NFL. It wasn't Carr.

[CarolinaRideorDie]

7 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

Well he did need to lead 10 GWDs over the last 2 seasons with the Gruden fiasco and getting Josh McDaniels as his HC. The Raiders are a 3 win team without Carr and the Panthers would have been an 11/12 win team with Carr and Wilks for a full year.

Saints are a 9/10 win team with Carr.

38.5% GWD in the past 2 seasons. He is at the prime age for a SB contending QB. 65% comp  tells you he makes good decisions more often than most NFL QBs. 70% is elite which he was near the last 2 seasons in Gruden's system. He is one of the most accurate passers in the NFL. It wasn't Carr.

I don't think Carr is a terrible QB, I just don't think he has enough to get a team to the supberowl. Analytics and stats are great to go off of, but there are the "intangibles" that's not accounted for. Kirk, Rodgers, and Dak have some great stats, etc, but why do they perennial drop out of the playoffs? 

[StealthCat]

Not sure how they can afford this, and I didn't know that free agency had started. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, StealthCat said:

Not sure how they can afford this, and I didn't know that free agency had started. 

It hasn't. Carr was released.

[Sgt Schultz]

20 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

My point wasn't to imply that they were doing anything illegal or unethical, just that to Saints fans and outside observers they may seem like geniuses now, but the underlying math simply doesn't support that position over the long term.

In business, after exhausting all legal accounting tricks, there is a temptation to move onto something illegal to continue the charade and keep the house of cards from collapsing.

There is obviously more transparency with NFL contracts, so they can't do something illegal per se without people knowing about it.

However, the cracks in this approach have already been showing.  The Saints had injuries this year and had very little depth to deal with it.  That is already a direct reflection of their cap management.

They are rapidly approaching a scenario where their entire team will consist of a few high-priced players making a lot of money, draft picks (controller salaries), UDFA's and league-minimum veterans, and an ungodly amount of dead money for players not on their team (and some who haven't been on the team for years).

Any GM who thinks that is a good long-term strategy, especially now with a 17-game season (and potentially an 18-game season) is not fit to be in that position.  Depth matters more now than ever before, and they are employing a strategy that simply doesn't value depth.

My biggest point is this, there are a litany of reasons the other 31 teams in the league don't follow this strategy unless they are nearing the end of a SB window.

The Saints are not geniuses for bucking this trend.  They are selling their fanbase a house of cards that is getting ready to collapse and take them years to recover from.

One of the reasons the other 31 teams aren't following this model is that it has produced one Owl and two NFCC appearances in the last 13 seasons.  It is just too many gyrations, too much risk, and too many variables that are out of their control for too little payoff. 

The Rams and Bucs have as many Owls in that time, and the Rams more Owl appearances by only pushing all their chips to the center of the table once. 

[GoobyPls]

Thank god 

[Evil Hurney]

1 hour ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Yeah it does.

1. Guessing the third year is essentially the big payoff and the 4th year never happens w/either a restructure or cut.  Still need more details on this contract.

2.  Carr must not have been getting positive vibes from the Panthers.  Otherwise, why settle for 15 mil in years one and two from the Saints before hearing the Panthers out?

1. Without details, I'm guessing 3rd year has some type of $30M roster bonus or guaranteed salary. If true and the Saints were to cut him they would have ~$40M in dead cap but "save" $15M vs the cap (pre-June 1). Unless the two decide to part ways, it will almost likely be restructured to spread that guarantee out over another 3-4 years. Basically this is a 2 year deal with an option for an extension.

2. Carr isn't settling for $15M per year. He is pocketing $70M over 2 years ($35M per year) with leverage to get another contract and more money in year 3. The cap charges are just how the accountants decided to spread out that money.