How much is too much to trade?

[vorbis]

the reality is that, though the price of moving up to the top 3 will sting, and perhaps multiple future 1st round picks will be involved, that price will be well worth it if they can grab one of the top QBs and that QB hits.

if that QB hits the ground running--maybe he is starting by the end of the year and showing stable progress--nobody will care about the price paid. even when Jared Goff and Carson Wentz started to flounder towards the end of their tenure with their original teams, I don't think many fans were regretting the price paid by the Rams and Eagles to go up and get them.

as far as I am concerned, you won't find a staff better prepared to bring a rookie QB up to speed and ready for a long, successful career than the staff with the Panthers right now. so for me, any price up to and including retail price for a top pick for a QB you target is worth it.

Jim Caldwell joined the Colts as QB coach in 2002 after Bruce Arians had left the same role to be an OC with Cleveland, and when Frank Reich joined Caldwell's offensive staff in 2006, they went on to win the Super Bowl with Manning's best record ever. Reich was later instrumental in getting a toolsy, somewhat raw rookie QB up to speed in Carson Wentz in 2016.  the following year, they won the Super Bowl.

the organization is aligned to help a rookie QB succeed. to that end, it's not a pure gamble to pay up to move up to get a prized rookie QB. it's a strategic choice. and that's why I feel better about the trade up this year than perhaps in any year since 1995.

in fact in researching this post I realized: the Panthers have NEVER, to my knowledge, traded UP to make their first pick of the draft. in 27 drafts, not once. they did trade up to make their 2nd 1st round pick in Jeff Otah. they have traded down a few times, with varying success. but never traded up for their first selection.

the staff is aligned, the defense and the offensive line are in place, for the most part. the roster is full of young talent. the opportunity is there to build out the offensive playmakers and other roster concerns with free agents during a rookie QB's rookie contract. the time is now.

is there a price that is too much to move up? well, yes, of course there is. but this is why you shop your assets to multiple teams. move up twice if you have to make it more palatable for Chicago to drop out of #1. move up to 5 and then move up to 1. all options should be on the table.

[TheCasillas]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not saying he's making the decision himself. I'm saying he's conducting himself as if he's a lock to go #1. Yeah, he has an agent and other handlers in his ear telling him how to navigate this process. Everyone realizes that.

I wasn't saying you were being naive... just using naivety in general if someone thinks this is him making silo'd decision. 

There is no doubt in league circles he is seen as the best QB of the bunch. I think its whether anyone will act on it because of his size that remains the question.

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The Bucs are certainly setup for a solid tanking. Hopefully the pull a Panthers and manage to set themselves up to win just enough games to be out of reach.

They mentioned yesterday at some point on the network that the bears could either trade for Hopkins or evans during the draft, so its possible they do a firesale to set themselves up

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, TheCasillas said:

I wasn't saying you were being naive... just using naivety in general if someone thinks this is him making silo'd decision. 

There is no doubt in league circles he is seen as the best QB of the bunch. I think its whether anyone will act on it because of his size that remains the question.

He most certainly is the best all around qb in the draft the problem however there hasnt ever been a successful nfl qb that size.   Thats a huge leap of faith that you are drafting literally the first one

[Icege]

I'm in complete agreement with Ballard:

• There's got to be a guy worthy of moving up
• Doesn't think that a team has to trade up to get it right. "Not in the right course of business."
• Understands that there's got to be a narrative to keep the news going, so everybody is going to think that a trade up has to happen
• If the staff gets together and thinks it's the guy for the next 10yrs, then yea, trade up, but who's to say they won't get one at #4?
• McAfee paraphrasing Chris Ballard: "Who says we might not trade back? I mean fug, listen, I'm tired. You guys gotta write what you gotta write, ok? I'm here to tell you your fuging wrong and you've never drafted ever before."

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Icege

[TheCasillas]

1 minute ago, Icege said:

I'm in complete agreement with Ballard:

• There's got to be a guy worthy of moving up
• Doesn't think that a team has to trade up to get it right. "Not in the right course of business."
• Understands that there's got to be a narrative to keep the news going, so everybody is going to think that a trade up has to happen
• If the staff gets together and thinks it's the guy for the next 10yrs, then yea, trade up, but who's to say they won't get one at #4?
• McAfee said that Chris Ballard pretty much said: "Who says we might not trade back? I mean fug, listen, I'm tired. You guys gotta write what you gotta write, ok? I'm here to tell you your fuging wrong and you've never drafted ever before."

 

Its all media hype. NFL needs to drum of free revenue right now... AR is the best thing that could possibly happen right now for the NFL during the dead part of the season. 

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

He most certainly is the best all around qb in the draft the problem however there hasnt ever been a successful nfl qb that size.   Thats a huge leap of faith that you are drafting literally the first one

If you believe the 204 weight, Russell Wilson is basically that same size. If you want to call Kyler Murray successful, them so is he. 

I just find that 204 weight highly suspect. Dude's eyeballs were probably floating and I hope someone patted him down.

[Growl]

18 minutes ago, ClawOn said:

You don't think the teams that made those deals thought that's what they were doing?

what are you talking about 

the teams sitting at 6 and 7, right now, are potential landing spots 

if they want a franchise QB they’re going to take one, again, to reiterate, nfl teams don’t undervalue the QB position like many posters here do

[TheCasillas]

4 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

I wasn't saying you were being naive... just using naivety in general if someone thinks this is him making silo'd decision. 

There is no doubt in league circles he is seen as the best QB of the bunch. I think its whether anyone will act on it because of his size that remains the question.

They will. Bryce is just way too efficient to not draft. Dolphins drafted Tua knowing that he may not be on the roster in a couple of years.. which may be the case.. but it didnt set them back for years for making that move. The Texans are a prime place for Bryce to go. 

 

I have no idea what the bears are going to do with their pick, otherwise id say Bryce will go 1...

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

If you believe the 204 weight, Russell Wilson is basically that same size. If you want to call Kyler Murray successful, them so is he. 

I just find that 204 weight highly suspect. Dude's eyeballs were probably floating and I hope someone patted him down.

No fuging way he is 204 when his pro day rolls around.   Everyone knows the game and like you say, when I bring him in to visit his ass is getting on a scale

[Kentucky Panther]

20 minutes ago, WarPanthers89 said:

Lol some of you guys kill me. I get the point of being conservative but after witnessing the QB hell we have been in, you can’t seriously suggest that giving up a future 1st as being insane. You witness bust players like Vernon Butler, and don’t blink an eye, but act like it will cripple the franchise forever if we risk a future first to get a possible franchise QB. I take that risk all day every day when you have a roster set up like we do right now. Our young core has a two year window before the big contracts come up and if you can build that around your rookie QB pay, it’s a thing of beauty and sets you up to be able to compete for a Super Bowl.

Nailed it. We have to try something different at this point. You know what they say about insanity.. 

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, Kentucky Panther said:

Nailed it. We have to try something different at this point. You know what they say about insanity.. 

I bet tepper green lights any trade up because he is sick of this poo

[LinvilleGorge]

11 minutes ago, vorbis said:

the reality is that, though the price of moving up to the top 3 will sting, and perhaps multiple future 1st round picks will be involved, that price will be well worth it if they can grab one of the top QBs and that QB hits.

if that QB hits the ground running--maybe he is starting by the end of the year and showing stable progress--nobody will care about the price paid. even when Jared Goff and Carson Wentz started to flounder towards the end of their tenure with their original teams, I don't think many fans were regretting the price paid by the Rams and Eagles to go up and get them.

as far as I am concerned, you won't find a staff better prepared to bring a rookie QB up to speed and ready for a long, successful career than the staff with the Panthers right now. so for me, any price up to and including retail price for a top pick for a QB you target is worth it.

Jim Caldwell joined the Colts as QB coach in 2002 after Bruce Arians had left the same role to be an OC with Cleveland, and when Frank Reich joined Caldwell's offensive staff in 2006, they went on to win the Super Bowl with Manning's best record ever. Reich was later instrumental in getting a toolsy, somewhat raw rookie QB up to speed in Carson Wentz in 2016.  the following year, they won the Super Bowl.

the organization is aligned to help a rookie QB succeed. to that end, it's not a pure gamble to pay up to move up to get a prized rookie QB. it's a strategic choice. and that's why I feel better about the trade up this year than perhaps in any year since 1995.

in fact in researching this post I realized: the Panthers have NEVER, to my knowledge, traded UP to make their first pick of the draft. in 27 drafts, not once. they did trade up to make their 2nd 1st round pick in Jeff Otah. they have traded down a few times, with varying success. but never traded up for their first selection.

the staff is aligned, the defense and the offensive line are in place, for the most part. the roster is full of young talent. the opportunity is there to build out the offensive playmakers and other roster concerns with free agents during a rookie QB's rookie contract. the time is now.

is there a price that is too much to move up? well, yes, of course there is. but this is why you shop your assets to multiple teams. move up twice if you have to make it more palatable for Chicago to drop out of #1. move up to 5 and then move up to 1. all options should be on the table.

The way we've assembled this staff certainly screams that we're taking a swing at a top QB in the draft.

I don't know why you'd assemble a staff chock full of QB coaches of you weren't. Is Derek Carr really going to do much more continued development at 32? Stafford didn't win a Super Bowl in L.A. because of some big leap in development. He won a Super Bowl in L.A. because of a big leap in the talent around him.

 

 

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

The way we've assembled this staff certainly screams that we're taking a swing at a top QB in the draft.

I don't know why you'd assemble a staff chock full of QB coaches of you weren't. Is Derek Carr really going to do much more continued development at 32? Stafford didn't win a Super Bowl in L.A. because of some big leap in development. He won a Super Bowl in L.A. because of a big leap in the talent around him.

 

 

This staff has an expiration date on it and the quicker they get their hands on the guy the faster the process is IMO.    McNown, staley, brown and frazier are all candidates to be poached as well as the dc