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Panther Non QB, top 10 big board

MHS831

By MHS831,
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MHS831 Grand Master

MHS831

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Assuming we sign Carr or another starting QB and (since we have been looking at him a lot) draft Hooker in the second round (all the attention he has been getting might be a tell).  I decided to get the focus off QB for at least one thread and take a look at what we could get in round In this scenario, I think we sit because non QBs are usually not worth the cost of moving up (the price to move up in the draft in the top 10 is rarely worth it because the QB market has inflated the costs):

Agree, disagree (nicely--please don't hurt my feelings with your all-knowing, omnipotence that has no boundaries and separates you from mere mortals), or post your own "big board".  These are MY preferences for non-QBs and the order in which I would take them at this time (I have accounted for off field baggage that is known, so this is not purely on talent, but I am not aware of any other Jalen Carter mishaps, so I give him a mulligan here):

1. Will Anderson Bama Edge (unlikely he will last past the top 5; paired with Burns, Oh my)

2. Jalen Carter, Georgia DT/DE  (Here is where the experience and quality of the coaching staff pays off--even with his baggage--and I am not that familiar with the details--Carter could drop--to #9?  Unlikely.  An interior pass rusher from the 5 tech DE spot, he would be a beast, considering his size, athleticism, and length.)

3. Myles Murphy, Clemson, DT/DE  (Will he be there at #9?  Coin toss.  He has scheme versatility and DL versatility, making him valuable.  at 6' 5" and 275 lbs, his power and quickness are a problem for any OL and then, QB.  He is developing, which means--with this coaching staff--he could become an elite player for a decade--like Jason Watts, for example--that good.)

4. Quentin Johnston, TCU WR  (Too high?  This WR is going to be special in the right system, but we have Moore and not a lot of star quality after that.  Imagine Moore, Johnston on the outside with Marshall, Shenault, and Smith inside?  Johnston is NFL ready and is a big target.  Don't like Darnold's decision-making in the pocket?  Well, what you can't see is WRs covered up--he would make Moore and whoever the QB is better.  This would free up Moore, add an elite threat, and let Marshall, Shenault, and Smith work vs. lesser coverage. Win Win Win.

5. Bryan Branch, Bama, DB  (This may surprise some of you--He could be there at #9; in today's NFL where they stay in nickel most of the time,  a big nickel who can cover like an outside CB and tackle like a LB is a rare find--which is why you want him playing the slot inside, he is a sure tackler and a big DB who can stay with today's #2 WRs and athletic TEs.  Heck, he can drop back and play S, or he can be moved outside in a pinch.  This would definitely upgrade overachieving Hartsfield, who is great depth and special teams talent, but a liability at times.   I love this player)

6. Christian Gonzales, Oregon, CB  (The best CB in this draft, and a lock down CB.  Imagine him across from Horn?  Jackson as a third CB --since he can't stay healthy, it would limit his exposure-- with CJ Henderson as the fourth CB.  While I am a bigger fan of building the Defensive front, especially since we are going to the 3-4 base, 2 shut down CBs makes sense because it makes the opposition beat you inside, behind the LBs and in front of the Safeties, with their TEs and slot WRs.  Remember how bad the CB play was vs. Brady and the Bucs?  Furthermore, cap wise-you would be able to pay Horn when his second contract is due because you lose the Donte Jackson contract.  This is more of a "long term" play, I guess, but Gonzales would make our CBs the best in the NFL.  To be honest, while I would understand this pick, I am not a fan of it because the Panthers could trade back and still get a premiere DB/CB--deep class).

7. Devin Witherspoon, Illinois, CB/Nickel (I love this DB because he can play inside (6' 2") and outside, but I think he is what the new NFL is looking for at nickel.  He is a fierce tackler and makes very quick reads in the passing and run games.  He plays with a chip, as if the oppositions' wearing of a different uniform offends him. 

8.  Michael Mayer, Notre Dame, TE  (A good argument against this pick is that TE is deep and we might be able to trade back 4-5 spots and still grab Mayer.  Good points.  However, Mayer is a true TE--a good receiver and a good blocker--so in a way, it is like getting 2 players in one.  I am not sure a more complete TE has come out in several years; there have been some that are more explosive in the passing game, but they disappear in the run game. He has three years of experience as a starter, so he is ready to play and would be an instant upgrade to the offense, making the QB better in the process by providing a weapon.  A blocking TE who can reasonably be expected to go over 1000 yards as a receiver. Considering the Panthers' needs, I could see this happening at #9 or with a trade back.)

9.  Tyree Wilson, Tex Tech, DL  (Wilson can play effectively from the 5 to the 7 techniques.  He is 6'5", 270 lbs.  He is very powerful, but demonstrates some twitch. I am not as high on Wilson as some seem to be, but his versatility is noteworthy. He had an impressive 2022, with 7 sacks, 14 tackles for loss, and 61 tackles)

10.  Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Ohio State WR  (He had a great 2021, with 1600 yards and 9 TDs in Ohio State's high octane offense, but was injured in 2022, so who knows where he would be.  Without the injury, Smith-Njigba could be the rated much higher, but he has good hands, decent size at 6' tall and 200 lbs.  I have him at #10 on the non-QB draft board because we need a WR more than we realize it seems and he is the second best WR with an unknown upside.  Gamble pick.

Honorable Mention: Joey Porter, Penn St. CB  (like the player, but 1 pick in 34 games?)

Analysis:  Unless Anderson, Carter, or Johnston is there at #9, or a QB to develop (Levis or Richardson), I think the Panthers should trade back.  Lotta good DBs in the first round.  I like Quentin Johnston if we have a QB in place--I think it would make the offense scary--add a TE in round 2.

 

 

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Bear Hands Grand Master

Bear Hands

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I'm placing Jordan Addison & Smith-Njigba high and above the WRs.  I honestly get Martavis Bryant vibes with Johnston.  Something just doesn't click for me with that guy.  

1. Jordan Addison - Been a fan since his ACC days, he gives me the sure thing feel that guys like Waddle & OBJ showed coming out.  

2. Smith-Njigba - Can never unsee the Rose Bowl.  He can light it up on the big stage and can be a superstar WR.  

3. Zay Flowers - This is the last 1st rounder that I think has that stud ceiling.  He is the closest thing to the Tyreek/Smitty type I've seen in years.  Love his blend of toughness and quickness.  

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MHS831 Grand Master

MHS831

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41 minutes ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

I think the next biggest need outside of QB is another premier pass rusher, especially if we are picking in the top 10. WR, Safety, TE are not top 10 value. With our new transition to 3-4, we need big bodies on the line and another pass rusher opposite Burns. 

Like I said, if one of the top 3 does not drop to us (4 if you like Johnston), I see us trading back.  No real value at #9.

I agree that we need edge--no doubt--but I also think a CB (remember the Bucs' game?) and a WR is a bigger need than I am hearing---still, CB is deep and a TE might make the WR need less severe.

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joemac Grand Master

joemac

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59 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Assuming we sign Carr or another starting QB and (since we have been looking at him a lot) draft Hooker in the second round (all the attention he has been getting might be a tell).  I decided to get the focus off QB for at least one thread and take a look at what we could get in round In this scenario, I think we sit because non QBs are usually not worth the cost of moving up (the price to move up in the draft in the top 10 is rarely worth it because the QB market has inflated the costs):

Agree, disagree (nicely--please don't hurt my feelings with your all-knowing, omnipotence that has no boundaries and separates you from mere mortals), or post your own "big board".  These are MY preferences for non-QBs and the order in which I would take them at this time (I have accounted for off field baggage that is known, so this is not purely on talent, but I am not aware of any other Jalen Carter mishaps, so I give him a mulligan here):

1. Will Anderson Bama Edge (unlikely he will last past the top 5; paired with Burns, Oh my)

2. Jalen Carter, Georgia DT/DE  (Here is where the experience and quality of the coaching staff pays off--even with his baggage--and I am not that familiar with the details--Carter could drop--to #9?  Unlikely.  An interior pass rusher from the 5 tech DE spot, he would be a beast, considering his size, athleticism, and length.)

3. Myles Murphy, Clemson, DT/DE  (Will he be there at #9?  Coin toss.  He has scheme versatility and DL versatility, making him valuable.  at 6' 5" and 275 lbs, his power and quickness are a problem for any OL and then, QB.  He is developing, which means--with this coaching staff--he could become an elite player for a decade--like Jason Watts, for example--that good.)

4. Quentin Johnston, TCU WR  (Too high?  This WR is going to be special in the right system, but we have Moore and not a lot of star quality after that.  Imagine Moore, Johnston on the outside with Marshall, Shenault, and Smith inside?  Johnston is NFL ready and is a big target.  Don't like Darnold's decision-making in the pocket?  Well, what you can't see is WRs covered up--he would make Moore and whoever the QB is better.  This would free up Moore, add an elite threat, and let Marshall, Shenault, and Smith work vs. lesser coverage. Win Win Win.

5. Bryan Branch, Bama, DB  (This may surprise some of you--He could be there at #9; in today's NFL where they stay in nickel most of the time,  a big nickel who can cover like an outside CB and tackle like a LB is a rare find--which is why you want him playing the slot inside, he is a sure tackler and a big DB who can stay with today's #2 WRs and athletic TEs.  Heck, he can drop back and play S, or he can be moved outside in a pinch.  This would definitely upgrade overachieving Hartsfield, who is great depth and special teams talent, but a liability at times.   I love this player)

6. Christian Gonzales, Oregon, CB  (The best CB in this draft, and a lock down CB.  Imagine him across from Horn?  Jackson as a third CB --since he can't stay healthy, it would limit his exposure-- with CJ Henderson as the fourth CB.  While I am a bigger fan of building the Defensive front, especially since we are going to the 3-4 base, 2 shut down CBs makes sense because it makes the opposition beat you inside, behind the LBs and in front of the Safeties, with their TEs and slot WRs.  Remember how bad the CB play was vs. Brady and the Bucs?  Furthermore, cap wise-you would be able to pay Horn when his second contract is due because you lose the Donte Jackson contract.  This is more of a "long term" play, I guess, but Gonzales would make our CBs the best in the NFL.  To be honest, while I would understand this pick, I am not a fan of it because the Panthers could trade back and still get a premiere DB/CB--deep class).

7. Devin Witherspoon, Illinois, CB/Nickel (I love this DB because he can play inside (6' 2") and outside, but I think he is what the new NFL is looking for at nickel.  He is a fierce tackler and makes very quick reads in the passing and run games.  He plays with a chip, as if the oppositions' wearing of a different uniform offends him. 

8.  Michael Mayer, Notre Dame, TE  (A good argument against this pick is that TE is deep and we might be able to trade back 4-5 spots and still grab Mayer.  Good points.  However, Mayer is a true TE--a good receiver and a good blocker--so in a way, it is like getting 2 players in one.  I am not sure a more complete TE has come out in several years; there have been some that are more explosive in the passing game, but they disappear in the run game. He has three years of experience as a starter, so he is ready to play and would be an instant upgrade to the offense, making the QB better in the process by providing a weapon.  A blocking TE who can reasonably be expected to go over 1000 yards as a receiver. Considering the Panthers' needs, I could see this happening at #9 or with a trade back.)

9.  Tyree Wilson, Tex Tech, DL  (Wilson can play effectively from the 5 to the 7 techniques.  He is 6'5", 270 lbs.  He is very powerful, but demonstrates some twitch. I am not as high on Wilson as some seem to be, but his versatility is noteworthy. He had an impressive 2022, with 7 sacks, 14 tackles for loss, and 61 tackles)

10.  Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Ohio State WR  (He had a great 2021, with 1600 yards and 9 TDs in Ohio State's high octane offense, but was injured in 2022, so who knows where he would be.  Without the injury, Smith-Njigba could be the rated much higher, but he has good hands, decent size at 6' tall and 200 lbs.  I have him at #10 on the non-QB draft board because we need a WR more than we realize it seems and he is the second best WR with an unknown upside.  Gamble pick.

Honorable Mention: Joey Porter, Penn St. CB  (like the player, but 1 pick in 34 games?)

Analysis:  Unless Anderson, Carter, or Johnston is there at #9, or a QB to develop (Levis or Richardson), I think the Panthers should trade back.  Lotta good DBs in the first round.  I like Quentin Johnston if we have a QB in place--I think it would make the offense scary--add a TE in round 2.

 

 

Give me Jordan Addison over Johnson as WR1 in this draft. 

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Bear Hands Grand Master

Bear Hands

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Overall, not really feeling much of the tip top of this draft compared to the top-25ish.  Don't see a huge drop/an elite class.  Murphy is nice I guess, but the CBs are a big mixed bag and some of these other DL have as big of question marks at their respective spots as the QBs do.  Kancey & Nolan seem to be 2 particular risers that could really get up there.  

A rather interesting scenario if we can't swing a QB trade up and the top-4 QBs are gone (we're talking worst case scenario basically)...

That would be a trade down with the Packers who really need an EDGE.  We arguably do as well, but they've been aggressive in recent years and we could land a future 1st with that type of move.  I'd say same thing goes for NE on the OL front for Mac.    

Could land a future 1st, or a few higher picks 2nd-3rds...

With the extra ammo, could be more targeted and get a combo like Addison, Hooker, & Musgrave.  Something like that could be a fun gamble.

 

 

 

 

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Stingray3030 Proficient

Stingray3030

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If we stay at #9 and Stroud, Young, and Levis are gone I am 100% onboard for this list basically in the order you have them.  I want a top WR or Mayer, but I would prefer we hit a stud pass rusher and maybe trade back into RD 1 late to grab that.  I have a feeling that won't be too terribly expensive and a realistic possibility.  Imagine If we hit Murphy, Mayer (trade up), Hooker, Sewell with our first 3 rounds....absolutely possible and would be ridiculous.  The rest of the draft would be gravy!

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