The emergance of Matt Ryan had me thinking

[John Fox]

Matt Moore in his first 3 starts had better stats than Matt Ryans first 3 start stats. :willy_nilly:

[Mr. Scot]

Jake Delhomme is no spring chicken. When are Fox and Hurney going to draft a guy to groom for the future?

Never, at least not with a high pick.

(you've been on the board this long and still don't know that?) :confused:

We have a backup that the team likes in Josh McCown and a possible QB of the future in Matt Moore. For the people who aregue that Moore looked bad in preseason, I'll repeat again that I'll take good performances in three real games as much more informative than preseason games.

There are other places that need depth a lot worse than the QB spot does. I have zero interest in seeing a draft p[ick used on a QB this season.

[John Fox]

Never, at least not with a high pick.

(you've been on the board this long and still don't know that?) :confused:

We have a backup that the team likes in Josh McCown and a possible QB of the future in Matt Moore. For the people who aregue that Moore looked bad in preseason, I'll repeat again that I'll take good performances in three real games as much more informative than preseason games.

There are other places that need depth a lot worse than the QB spot does. I have zero interest in seeing a draft p[ick used on a QB this season.

Nate Davis looks to be a great player (hes from ball state), but if Ball St. runs the spread forget about it.

[Delhommey]

If Ryan would have fallen to our pick, Fox and Hurney wouldn't have taken 5 seconds to send their pick to the commish, so don't give me the "we'll never draft a qb high" business. I think they would have even leapfrogged Baltimore to grab him.

[Mr. Scot]

If Ryan would have fallen to our pick, Fox and Hurney wouldn't have taken 5 seconds to send their pick to the commish, so don't give me the "we'll never draft a qb high" business. I think they would have even leapfrogged Baltimore to grab him.

I don't.

What we can see most clearly about this year's draft is that the gameplan going in on the offensive side was to improve the run game. It was the right plan, and they accomplished it, big time. Drafting Ryan would have yielded zero benefits in that regard and would have lost us the chance to get Stewart and Otah.

The whole Ryan scenario was what the national "inside" reporters predicted we'd do this year, and Hurney played the card as if he would have. Beat writers didn't buy it, and when it all turned out to be a ruse you had a bunch of the national guys whining like they'd been stood up on a date.

Gantt has said before that Fox doesn't like using high picks on a QB because of the "bust" factor. Miss on one of thoe guys and you set your team back for years. I can't buy that a coach and GM that were constantly hearing the word "hot" used to describe their seats would have been ready to make that sort of gamble in a year when their jobs might be on the line, knowing that it was outside their character to begin with.

Getting one of those top flight QBs next season would likely require trading up since we have no first rounder. Can you honestly see Fox and Hurney doing that?

[frash.exe]

I don't.

What we can see most clearly about this year's draft is that the gameplan going in on the offensive side was to improve the run game. It was the right plan, and they accomplished it, big time. Drafting Ryan would have yielded zero benefits in that regard and would have lost us the chance to get Stewart and Otah.

The whole Ryan scenario was what the national "inside" reporters predicted we'd do this year, and Hurney played the card as if he would have. Beat writers didn't buy it, and when it all turned out to be a ruse you had a bunch of the national guys whining like they'd been stood up on a date.

Gantt has said before that Fox doesn't like using high picks on a QB because of the "bust" factor. Miss on one of thoe guys and you set your team back for years. I can't buy that a coach and GM that were constantly hearing the word "hot" used to describe their seats would have been ready to make that sort of gamble in a year when their jobs might be on the line, knowing that it was outside their character to begin with.

Getting one of those top flight QBs next season would likely require trading up since we have no first rounder. Can you honestly see Fox and Hurney doing that?

The first round QB is a conundrum. It's big money and big expectation. If you look it up, you'll probably find that QBs have the same or similar bust percentage than any other position you can think of. The problem is when people draft a QB high, they're thinking "this guy needs to rescue the franchise and put us on a map yadda yadda yadda" while someone that drafts a RB high is thinking "this guy can be a touchdown machine", it isn't the same expectation level from QB to RB, or DE, or OT, etc.

I kind of like to think of when a HC is just hired, has all sorts of question marks at power positions, and spends his FIRST draft pick on a QB, he's building the team backwards. Kind of like building a pyramid from the apex up and out, it's not going to work or it's at least going to make a very ugly pyramid. Some of the teams that have had QB success have already had the tools in place, i.e. Joe Flacco, Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, etc. While others like Alex Smith just never had help beside them. So when Panthers fans think of first round QBs, they automatically think Alex Smith, or David Carr. Neither of the teams they were thrown into were nearly as good as even the 2007 Carolina Panthers, comparing this team in it's current form would be closer to a franchise like Denver, or Baltimore, yes, it's inconsistent year by year, but it's not in any way a black hole of a team like Detroit or Oakland. Look at Jamarcus Russell, stone-headed as he is making some of his decisions, is anybody even getting open in Oakland? Who's he throwing to? More importantly, who's giving him time to throw? I'll say if you put Joe Flacco at QB on this team, he'd do pretty well just like Delhomme is, and he's got years ahead of him.

[Mr. Scot]

The first round QB is a conundrum. It's big money and big expectation. If you look it up, you'll probably find that QBs have the same or similar bust percentage than any other position you can think of. The problem is when people draft a QB high, they're thinking "this guy needs to rescue the franchise and put us on a map yadda yadda yadda" while someone that drafts a RB high is thinking "this guy can be a touchdown machine", it isn't the same expectation level from QB to RB, or DE, or OT, etc.

I kind of like to think of when a HC is just hired, has all sorts of question marks at power positions, and spends his FIRST draft pick on a QB, he's building the team backwards. Kind of like building a pyramid from the apex up and out, it's not going to work or it's at least going to make a very ugly pyramid. Some of the teams that have had QB success have already had the tools in place, i.e. Joe Flacco, Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, etc. While others like Alex Smith just never had help beside them. So when Panthers fans think of first round QBs, they automatically think Alex Smith, or David Carr. Neither of the teams they were thrown into were nearly as good as even the 2007 Carolina Panthers, comparing this team in it's current form would be closer to a franchise like Denver, or Baltimore, yes, it's inconsistent year by year, but it's not in any way a black hole of a team like Detroit or Oakland. Look at Jamarcus Russell, stone-headed as he is making some of his decisions, is anybody even getting open in Oakland? Who's he throwing to? More importantly, who's giving him time to throw? I'll say if you put Joe Flacco at QB on this team, he'd do pretty well just like Delhomme is, and he's got years ahead of him.

Might be true, but if you and I are wrong about that, we don't get fired.

It's not so easy to gamble when your livelihood depends on being right.

[Mr. Scot]

Lemme frame it this way...

Imagine a family getting ready to buy a car.

The kids are going to push for a shiny new sports car. It'll do 100 easy and it'll look great doing it. Everyone in the neighborhood will oooh and ahhh. They'll be admiring in public and jealous in private. And of course, all that attention will greatly enhance your reputation

On the other hand, you've got the parents, the ones who actually have to pay for the car. They realize that high performance sports car also comes with a high price tag, and could wind up being high maintenance too. Throw in that if it doesn't perform like it's supposed to, you're out a lot of money so getting a replacement isn't going to be easy.

On the flipside, a cheap, reliable low mileage economy car from the "previously owned" lot comes with less prestige, less "wow" factor, less boost to the reputation, but also less risk. You can check the repair records and get info from the prior owners. Sure, it may not do the things that a shiny new sports car will do, but it's capable of getting you where you want to go just the same.

Ahhh, but the new car will last longer, the kids say. Not necessarily true. More than one used car has been known to outlast a newer counterpart. throw in that the money you save not buying that sports car can be used for other things the family needs as well.

As you might have guessed, we fans are the kids, and we always love the shiny new toys. After all, the neighbors have one. Why can't we get one too?

Our Panther "parents" tend to think in more practical terms. And of course, since they're the ones responsible for "paying the bills" so to speak, they're not necessarily going to be swayed by what the "kids" want.

(nor should they be)

Down the road, the time may come when the Panthers get one of those "shiny new toys" to play with, but given the overall situation, I don't think next year will be that year.

[Falcons1stPanthers2nd]

I never implied they would use a high pick on a QB Scot. That'll never happen. That's why i suggested maybe JPW.

[Vagrant]

The whole "Ryan To Carolina", thing was a total hoax. They never wanted him. Jake was their guy. This group didn't have time to groom a quarterback. There are no slam dunks in the draft and Ryan could have easily turned out to be as bad or worse as most first year starters.

What they told every team picking in front of them was that if you want to get Ryan you need to trade over us. It was a misdirection. They wanted either one of the linemen to fall to them or they wanted Stewart.

Otah was just a nice surprise still being on the board at the Eagles pick. And like I said, they were going for broke this year with this current group. They couldn't give two beans if they gave the 3rd overall to the Eagles if it meant they were fired because they just had a 3-13 season.

Drafting first round quarterbacks is for coaches and GM's that think they have time to see him come to fruition. Clearly this was never the case with Fox and company last draft.

[Falcons1stPanthers2nd]

The whole "Ryan To Carolina", thing was a total hoax. They never wanted him. Jake was their guy. This group didn't have time to groom a quarterback. There are no slam dunks in the draft and Ryan could have easily turned out to be as bad or worse as most first year starters.

What they told every team picking in front of them was that if you want to get Ryan you need to trade over us. It was a misdirection. They wanted either one of the linemen to fall to them or they wanted Stewart.

Otah was just a nice surprise still being on the board at the Eagles pick. And like I said, they were going for broke this year with this current group. They couldn't give two beans if they gave the 3rd overall to the Eagles if it meant they were fired because they just had a 3-13 season.

Drafting first round quarterbacks is for coaches and GM's that think they have time to see him come to fruition. Clearly this was never the case with Fox and company last draft.

Who thought Carolina wanted Ryan? He wasn't falling to the 13 spot at any rate. The last part of your statement is true but that's why the scouts get paid.

Stewart was picked 13 so i'd assume him.

Otah was expected to be there. After the run on OTs in the first i'd say the Panthers got the best of the bunch.

Last paragraph is very very false. Atlanta? Baltimore? Detroit (Joey Harrington) Houston David Carr? Although i may be misunderstanding what you mean by time.

[PanthersFanNY]

Who thought Carolina wanted Ryan? He wasn't falling to the 13 spot at any rate. The last part of your statement is true but that's why the scouts get paid.

Stewart was picked 13 so i'd assume him.

Otah was expected to be there. After the run on OTs in the first i'd say the Panthers got the best of the bunch.

Last paragraph is very very false. Atlanta? Baltimore? Detroit (Joey Harrington) Houston David Carr? Although i may be misunderstanding what you mean by time.

I think he means teams that were in a rebuilding mode, in which case the coach couldn't really be held completely responsible for the success of the team in the first year.

[Fiz]

John Parker Wilson takes the snap from Ryan Kalil....drops back....drops back....drops back....drops back

yeah jake isn't young but he's not very old in football years. he's stayed healthy all this year, so the arm doesn't appear to be an issue. Fox and co will never spend a high draft pick on a qb, so the next qb is already either on the team or in the nfl most likely.

[Black & Blue]

Drafting first round quarterbacks is for coaches and GM's that think they have time to see him come to fruition. Clearly this was never the case with Fox and company last draft.

At the risk of taking this discussion off track, if Fox and company were truly on the hot seat coming into '08 then exactly how did they get the green light to trade away their first rounder next year?

Seems any new staff would have been missing that ever so valuable top pick.

Don't get me wrong...I'm damn glad Hurney and Fox are staying...just curious as to the thought process that could have set back a potential rebuilding effort.