S2 Cognitive test points to NFL Success

[rayzor]

https://www.s2cognition.com/post/why-iq-is-losing-its-place-in-sports

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IQ is just one way to carve up what happens between the ears and, in fact, is very limited in capturing the cognitive processing and decision-making that happens on the field.

IQ vs. Game-Speed Decisions

In classic psychology and neuropsychology, IQ (or intelligence quotient) broadly encompasses human "reasoning skills." More detailed models, like the Cattell-Horn theory (circa 1941), distinguish two components of intelligence, more flexible problem-solving skills that they call "fluid intelligence" and knowledge-based abilities that one would learn in a classroom that they call "crystallized intelligence." Classic intelligence measures assess concepts like vocabulary, arithmetic, memory for words and lists, putting blocks together to match a pattern, mazes, or coding different symbols that are associated with a number. While classic intelligence measures are important to understand a person's ability to make sense and operate in the world and everyday life, they have limited application to play-making ability and decision-making on the football field.

 

And while IQ might contribute to a QB's efficiency at learning new plays and digesting more abstract concepts and schemes, it is NOT what gets the job done on the field. Head knowledge and reasoning skills that unfold over tens of seconds to minutes are not the same as executing decisions and reactions in sub-second timescales. Just because a player knows the play doesn't mean he can execute it under pressure. Ask any coach.

 

[rayzor]

just a point of interest here from a 2021 article...

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Where Ohio State's Justin Fields goes is one of the biggest mysteries in the first round of the 2021 NFL draft, and whichever team lands him reportedly won't have to worry about his processing speed.

According to Albert Breer of The MMQB, Fields "scored at a very high level" when he took the S2 Cognition test that is designed to measure processing traits. One general manager said his score was "extremely high," while Breer noted it was "comparable to Joe Burrow's from last spring."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2941963-report-justin-fields-scored-similarly-to-joe-burrow-on-nfl-draft-cognitive-test?amp=1

[LinvilleGorge]

I've said it about Sam Darnold. He seems like a smart guy but he just doesn't operate like a QB. He can't kickdown into instinct mode. Everything has to be read and react once the ball is snapped. You have to be able to turn off your conscious brain. You just don't have time to think. If you're thinking you're going to be too slow. 

It's probably why a lot of teams back in the day actually downgraded QBs if they scored TOO high on the Wonderlic. They probably worried about a really intelligent guy being able to revert to instinct mode. A really intelligent person is probably going to find it harder to turn off that thinking mode. Just my theory.

[LinvilleGorge]

Cognitive tests are likely always going to be like forecasting though. You're chasing an imperfect goal. No test is ever likely to be a great capture of intelligence or cognition. A test measures your ability to perform well on that test. Trying to extrapolate those results beyond that is likely always going to be a dicey proposition.

[Leeroy Jenkins Ph.D.]

As someone who does neuropsychological testing for a living and assisted NFL players with the concussion settlement payouts, this sounds 1000X more useful than the crap they are using currently. 

[glenwo2]

19 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I've said it about Sam Darnold. He seems like a smart guy but he just doesn't operate like a QB. He can't kickdown into instinct mode. Everything has to be read and react once the ball is snapped. You have to be able to turn off your conscious brain. You just don't have time to think. If you're thinking you're going to be too slow. 

It's probably why a lot of teams back in the day actually downgraded QBs if they scored TOO high on the Wonderlic. They probably worried about a really intelligent guy being able to revert to instinct mode. A really intelligent person is probably going to find it harder to turn off that thinking mode. Just my theory.

 

So you're saying that Sam stunk as a QB because.....he's too smart?   uhh.....

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by glenwo2

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

 

So you're saying that Sam stunk as a QB because.....he's too smart?   uhh.....

 

No. I'm just saying he's not dumb.

A lot of people confuse looking dumb on a football field for being dumb. They're not the same thing. If you're trying to think on a football field instead of just reacting you're going to be too slow and look dumb.

[rayzor]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

No. I'm just saying he's not dumb.

A lot of people confuse looking dumb on a football field for being dumb. They're not the same thing. If you're trying to think on a football field instead of just reacting you're going to be too slow and look dumb.

Some smart people handle pressure well. Others don't. Sammy don't.

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, rayzor said:

Some smart people handle pressure well. Others don't. Sammy don't.

I think some don't have pressure well. Then some just can't go into read and react mode. Then you have the Same Darnolds of the world where both are true. Oh wee mayne.

[Mr. Scot]

45 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think some don't have pressure well. Then some just can't go into read and react mode. Then you have the Same Darnolds of the world where both are true. Oh wee mayne.

Some people's read and react mode is a lot better than others.

[Basbear]

 

[CPantherKing]

On 2/24/2023 at 5:43 PM, Khyber53 said:

I've been pounding on the table over the years that the biggest success factor in a QB is processor speed rather than physical size, speed or arm strength. But I had no idea that anyone had developed a real way to measure it. This is pretty cool and could change a lot of drafting info.

I wonder how it changes over time for players, too, especially after taking all the hits (or delivering them). Could this also be a predictor for  brain and nerve damage over time?

I hope we'll hear more about this and I wonder if during the interviews portion of the Combine if our guys will be asking if the player would be willing to release their score to them... 

This has been around since the late 2000s. Several of these businesses were emerging in the early 2010s. Some NFL teams have been using their assessments since 2016, and I believe less than half the league currently use their services. This is just press to get more business. If they ever start producing SB winning teams/players consistently, the entire league will use them. The NFL front offices and scouts still ignore this test for the most part. The two QBs in the top 90th percentile from the 2022 combine were both overlooked last year. They are both playing very well and continue to be doubted.

 

[Khyber53]

13 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

This has been around since the late 2000s. Several of these businesses were emerging in the early 2010s. Some NFL teams have been using their assessments since 2016, and I believe less than half the league currently use their services. This is just press to get more business. If they ever start producing SB winning teams/players consistently, the entire league will use them. The NFL front offices and scouts still ignore this test for the most part. The two QBs in the top 90th percentile from the 2022 combine were both overlooked last year. They are both playing very well and continue to be doubted.

 

Hmmm, that's very interesting. I wonder if it's an old school/new school thing that keeps some teams from using it. It seems to be really intuitive.

[thefuzz]

19 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think some don't have pressure well. Then some just can't go into read and react mode. Then you have the Same Darnolds of the world where both are true. Oh wee mayne.

His "instincts" look off, because he doesn't have quarterbacking instincts....he didn't play enough.

What I see is a guy who knows what he's looking at, or at least has a good idea of what he's looking at, but if the play isn't executed precisely, and isn't defended as he assumed it would....he's not real good after that.

I think that as athletes, it's good to play multiple sports...but as a starting college or NFL QB?  Probably best to dial that in solely for a few years leading into D1 if you are that good.  Just a position that coaches have made very tough to succeed at.