Last 5 seasons

[panther4life]

If you look at our cumulative record over the last 5 seasons (29-53). We are the 3rd worst NFC team over that stretch and 5th worst in the NFL.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/worst-record-over-the-past-5-years

In the last 4 seasons were the 2nd worst team in the NFC and 5th worst overall

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/worst-record-over-the-past-4-years

In the last 3 seasons were tied with the bears for the worst team in the NFC and tied for 4th worst in the NFL

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/worst-record-over-the-past-3-years

Since November 5th 2019

Panthers are 17-41, the worst in the NFC and the 3rd worst team in the NFL (2 losses shy of being the worst).

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/worst-nfl-record-since-november-5th-2019

In that time frame we have managed to do some things right. Our first round picks have all been excellent since the 2018 draft.

D.J Moore, Brian Burns, Derrick Brown, Jaycee Horn and Icky Ekwonu. If you look at franchise tag values, these are all premium cornerstone non QB positions.

We have also built up a good offensive line and particular my strong at the Tackle positions. So good in fact that most don’t want to invest a 1st round pick in the o-line this year. 

We also had arguably one of the best offensive playmakers in the NFL in Christian Mccaffrey.
 

So why are we so terrible when we keep knocking at the first round draft picks at premium positions, have an pretty good offensive line and a defense that’s been widely praised?

We all know the answer to that. 
1. Coaching

2. QB

On paper we have assembled the best coaching staff you could ask for and there’s no changing that now. So problem 1 fixed.

Onto problem number 2.

We have tried hard to cut corners and lost draft currency + cap room on failed QB’s.

We have gone down the road of acquiring the best QB’s we could get our hands on. Bridgewater, Darnold, and Mayfield without parting with 1st round picks.They all failed us. 
 

If you want to go down that same wishing well we could spend even more cap space than previously spent on David Carr or Jimmy G. Sure they could be better than the last ones we tried and that would be an improvement. Both are 31 years old and could  possibly help us achieve back to back winning seasons at least once over the next 5 years. In the best case scenario they will keep us from drafting in the top 10 and we will have to strike gold in finding a QB who can be our long term answer at some point during these guys potential tenure with us, otherwise we’re right back to the drawing board and who knows if we can keep the rest of the roster as strong as it currently is.

It’s time to take a calculated risk and do whatever we have to, to find our franchise QB. I’m running out of patience to develop another guy and suffer through multiple losing seasons. We need someone who can come in and at minimum make us fun to watch again and potentially get us as many winning seasons if not more than the available free agents over the next 5 years and beyond. 

I don’t know what it will take to land one of those guys or who it even is exactly. I suspect it’s Bryce Young or CJ Stroud. I also suspect we’d have to be drafting top 2, to land one of them. We should only hope we’re lucky enough to only have to give up 3 first round picks to acquire one of these guys. 

Sure we could get even luckier and not have to trade anything to get our new franchise QB in this draft by sitting at 9 or striking gold later. However I don’t want to count on us being lucky, so therefore my stance remains strong on moving up to hedge our bets. 
 

Lastly, congrats to all of us for being true fans who are somehow still standing here after all these years of misery!  I hope for all our sake whatever path we take, it’s the right one. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by panther4life

[Mr. Scot]

Don't forget for three of the last five seasons, this was our GM.

[TLGPanthersFan]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Don't forget for three of the last five seasons, this was our GM.

/cdn-cgi/mirage/f74cb1776f1a5a75f5996c4de6bb61b20c5e5dfb9cbd633d0b5278c6d269ec4a/1280/https://res.cloudinary.com/nflclubs/image/private/t_editorial_landscape_mobile_2x/f_auto/panthers/lhrxz7nnif4xdbm2kxvm.jpg

I was gonna post a screaming gif but of course I am in an area where I have a bad connection. You get the picture. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by TLGPanthersFan

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

I was gonna post a screaming gif but of course I am in an area where I have a bad connection. You get the picture. 

This work?

[panther4life]

55 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Don't forget for three of the last five seasons, this was our GM.

/cdn-cgi/mirage/fca5f8343d5e151eec9f086213a99e9631041342c38fd104d3f1df356d4f8a92/1280/https://res.cloudinary.com/nflclubs/image/private/t_editorial_landscape_mobile_2x/f_auto/panthers/lhrxz7nnif4xdbm2kxvm.jpg

Somehow his firing hasn’t helped us yet.

As a matter of fact we’ve regressed. 
2017-2020 we went 28-36(438 w%)Since his departure were 12-22 (.353 w %).

Of course that’s because of the demise at QB, which has been our problem biggest problem since we drafted Cam back in 2011.

Edited February 23, 2023 by panther4life

[panther4life]

^ meant to say since cam became ineffective after 2017

[Mr. Scot]

14 minutes ago, panther4life said:

Somehow his firing hasn’t helped us yet.

We went from Marty having final say to Matt Rhule having final say.

[PleaseCutStewart]

We also are lacking depth at pretty much every position, outside of maybe oline. So when (what seems like) the inevitable injury happens to one of those premium players, there is a significant drop-off in talent.

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Don't forget for three of the last five seasons, this was our GM.

Marty Hurney 2.0 was a kick to the balls. 

29 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

We went from Marty having final say to Matt Rhule having final say.

That was kicking an already severely bruised set of twins

[panther4life]

7 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Honestly, you are way overrating the impact of our first round picks. DJ and Burns were solid because they were also not top 10 picks. The other 3 were all top 8 picks.

Brown is just OK. I know he played better this year but he was the 7th pick. You’d expect a higher impact with the 7th pick. That was higher than Aaron Donald was picked. Brown went one pick after Justin Herbert to show you the difference in true value that high in the draft.

Horn has played 16 out of 34 games and he didn’t play in the most crucial game we had all year. He could be great, but being healthy to end the season and compete for a playoff spot means something.

Iky’s been solid and lord willing will continue to get better and be a great pick but he’s played one year so he could only impact 1 year.

There is no Cam or Luke yet in our top 10 picks. That’s one thing you need to win and the other is hitting on other picks. There is only 1 other true impact pick I can see in the last 5 drafts and that’s Chinn. You cannot win when you can’t even get a second above average starter in 5 drafts after round 1. Bodies and starters because they are the only option don’t win games. An abundance of above average starters including QB wins games.

I would have loved to trade up for any of the QBs ahead Brown in 2020 and I’m also pounding the drum to trade and get a QB this year. 

I think your discounting the rate in which 1st round picks also but as well. Look no further than the picks immediately after Brown.  Isiah Simmons and C.J Henderson. You could argue we should have taken an offensive tackle there and that also would have been a good pick, probably even better. But we chose DT to bolster our d-line and he was much better than Javon Kinlaw the next one taken.

Even the non QB’s taken ahead of Brown haven’t panned out either. 
 

Lastly injuries are part of the business in the NFL, so hard to hold Horn against them for picking him.
 

[panther4life]

8 minutes ago, PleaseCutStewart said:

We also are lacking depth at pretty much every position, outside of maybe oline. So when (what seems like) the inevitable injury happens to one of those premium players, there is a significant drop-off in talent.

Depth is at the bottom of totem pole until we find a QB and that’s precisely the point that I’m making here. We’ve got to do whatever it takes to land a franchise QB, otherwise nothing else matters. 

[panther4life]

Bottom line is this, whether you think we have done drafting well in the first or you think we haven’t there’s no harm in trading 2 additional first in an attempt to go land a franchise QB. If we mismanage our first round picks anyway, then who cares if we give a couple away to go get our number 1 choice at QB. Or if you think we’ve done excellent at drafting in the first and it still leaves us as a bottom 5 team, then you should also see the value in letting a couple go to get a top QB.

Why save 2 first and take the 3rd-4th option left at QB unless you think this is a super deep class where multiple QB’s have a shot at becoming the guy we need. I suppose that’s possible but I’m ready to hedge out bets and not settle, let’s go get the best!

[mountainpantherfan2]

6 minutes ago, panther4life said:

Bottom line is this, whether you think we have done drafting well in the first or you think we haven’t there’s no harm in trading 2 additional first in an attempt to go land a franchise QB. If we mismanage our first round picks anyway, then who cares if we give a couple away to go get our number 1 choice at QB. Or if you think we’ve done excellent at drafting in the first and it still leaves us as a bottom 5 team, then you should also see the value in letting a couple go to get a top QB.

Why save 2 first and take the 3rd-4th option left at QB unless you think this is a super deep class where multiple QB’s have a shot at becoming the guy we need. I suppose that’s possible but I’m ready to hedge out bets and not settle, let’s go get the best!

I completely get what you are wanting and why. But I think you also have to be smart about it. If you can draft a franchise QB, who cares about those future draft picks, right?  But what if the QB you draft ends up not being the franchise QB you hoped he would be?

There has only been 10 times a team has traded up and drafted a QB in the top 5 picks. None of those 10 have ever won a Super Bowl. Only 1 has ever played in a Super Bowl.  Only 2 played for the team that drafted them more than 5 seasons. 
 

From my armchair perspective, it’s much better to trade up to draft a QB that slides down in the draft rather than trade up into the top 5 for one.  The Bears in 2017 traded up to the 2nd overall pick to draft Mitchell Trubisky.  The Chiefs traded up to the 10th pick for Patrick Mahomes and the Texans traded up to the 12th pick for Deshaun Watson.  The fact that any team is willing to trade away a pick in the top 5 instead of using it on a QB should tell you all you need to know.

 

I agree we need to find our QB of the future. I’m just not sold trading into the top 5 is the solution. 
 

 

[Sgt Schultz]

The case against trading a couple of first round picks (assuming that is beyond the swap of first round picks this year) is that your scouting staff and coaches don't see a guy who they believe is a franchise-changing QB in this draft. 

If you trade the picks anyway and they are right, you aren't making that deal again for a few years.  Nobody is going to want your package of seconds, thirds, and fourths.

So if you are going to do it, you had either better be right, have an abundance of picks to trade away, or be willing to trade some other valuable pieces if you miss.  And most of the times I have seen this done, it has been a swing and a miss or a foul tip.

It is a bad comparison because I think the 49ers roster is better than ours in almost every position.  But, make them our roster, then assume Lance is a flop, and you have no Garoppolo or Purdy in the room.  Maybe Corral is our Purdy, but we have absolutely no idea about that yet.  Those results are not pretty, and there is no avenue up for a couple of years barring somebody releasing a QB that can raise the results.

And I see that @mountainpantherfan2 just posted something similar.