PFF - What would it take for Panthers to trade up for #1 pick

[Mr. Scot]

49 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

They gave up too much and probably picked the wrong one. 

Yup, which is a mistake I'd really prefer not to see us repeat.

[ForJimmy]

28 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yup, which is a mistake I'd really prefer not to see us repeat.

Yeah but they were moving from lower than 8 so the cost will be less. We will have Fitt and Reich picking their QB which the board seems high on. If the Niners picked Fields or even Mac it could have been very different. They also weren’t crushed from giving up their picks. They are still a very competitive team that could have won it all without the QB injuries just 2 years later. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah but they were moving from lower than 8 so the cost will be less. We will have Fitt and Reich picking their QB which the board seems high on. If the Niners picked Fields or even Mac it could have been very different. They also weren’t crushed from giving up their picks. They are still a very competitive team that could have won it all without the QB injuries just 2 years later. 

Still serves as a cautionary tale though...

Also FYI, in his recent mock Joe Person has us trading up to third overall. He mentions the possibility of trading to five given the connections between Fitterer, Morgan and the Seahawks front office but feels like three is safer to acquire one of the guys they really want.

For the record, his pick is Will Levis.

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Still serves as a cautionary tale though...

Also FYI, in his recent mock Joe Person has us trading up to third overall. He mentions the possibility of trading to five given the connections between Fitterer, Morgan and the Seahawks front office but feels like three is safer to acquire one of the guys they really want.

For the record, his pick is Will Levis.

2023 first, pick 61 and 2024 first

 

Its steep to move up 6 spots but if the guy is there at 3 just fuging do it and move down the road.  It would

[stan786]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Still serves as a cautionary tale though...

Also FYI, in his recent mock Joe Person has us trading up to third overall. He mentions the possibility of trading to five given the connections between Fitterer, Morgan and the Seahawks front office but feels like three is safer to acquire one of the guys they really want.

For the record, his pick is Will Levis.

Yeah end of the day I think I agree with Person here if we do draft a guy I think 5 probably is where we end up and we’ll get the third QB off the board. Which I think is probably going to be alright with the FO because I anticipate they are going to have Levis near the top of that Group. We could save our future firsts that way as well probably. My one curiosity is how do we feel about Young’s size, he very easily could tumble to 5 because of it. Really any of those 3 could be there at 5 depending on the next month or two.

I’d be a little surprised if Gannon trades out of the chance to add an Anderson to his team, especially with his style of defense that needs a serious pass rush from the DLine. But maybe the Eagles system has left an impression on him.

Edited February 22, 2023 by stan786

[SCO96]

8 hours ago, JawnyBlaze said:

If Chicago stays at 1, then I’d be ok just moving up to 3 even though I really prefer Stroud to Young. That might save us a 1st, or at least a 2nd to potentially get Young instead of Stroud. But if it’s looking like Chicago will trade to another team taking a QB, that team needs to be us.  The gap between Stroud/Young and Richardson/Levis is huge imo

That's the thing we really do not know. Stroud and Young play for perennial football powers. Every single year their recruiting classes are among the top 10 in the nation...and in most cases top 5. The reason certain teams always seem to be in the top 10 is because their roster is stacked with 4 and 5 star players. When QB's from those teams step on the field most of time they are more talented than the opposition. According to 247sports.com, BAMA and Ohio State are both in the top 5 for recruiting classes.

Will Levis played for Kentucky, a perennial BASKETBALL power. Kentucky can field some good teams, but we know they're never going to win a national championship because they can't even win the SEC EAST. When they go up against GA, BAMA, LSU, Florida, Tenn they are going to be outgunned in most years. My SC Gamecocks were good enough to beat Clemson and Tennessee in back to back weeks, and we still finished 3rd in the SEC East. Kentucky's recruiting class is #31 by 247sports.com

Ask your self this, would Young and Stroud be as dominant playing at Kentucky instead of BAMA and Ohio State? And, How would Levis look if he played on those teams instead of with the Wildcats? We really don't know the answer to either question. Still, I just don't see Bryce Young winning the Heisman Trophy at Kentucky. I am by no means a QB expert, but I have noticed that in recent years that some of the more productive 1st round QB's aren't coming from perennial powerhouse teams. (ex: Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Allen). All of the following have won SB's this century: Brees, Big Ben, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco. All were 1st rounders except Brees ( a high 2nd rounder). None of these guys mentioned above in either list played for a Blue Blood college program. Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers didn't win SB rings, but both have had solid NFL career. They went to Boston College and NC State.

I'm more impressed with the guys who are able do more with less talent in the collegiate ranks. Those type of guys seem to thrive in the NFL. A great QB can do more with less in the pros. His play can elevate the team and help hide/overcome deficiencies that are bound to exist on team due to the crunch of the salary cap and the movement of players due to free agency.

[Jay Roosevelt]

14 hours ago, SCO96 said:

Those guys aren't studs. We all agree on that.  Yet, even you will agree that as bad as the NFC South was last year, we probably would have won our division with any of those guys starting the majority of the games. We can probably win the division with one of them this year. 

Oh, absolutely we'd have won the NFC South; and then lost in the first round of the playoffs to a team with an actual franchise QB.

Winning the division is meaningless if we don't have a legit shot at getting to a Super Bowl and winning it. And we're not doing that without a franchise QB.

I'm not content with just competing for the division or a wild card spot every year; I want to win fuging Super Bowls and be in that mix every year. The only teams that do that are the ones with franchise QBs.

Draft picks are only worth what value you get for them, and what is more valuable than a franchise QB?

[Proudiddy]

2 1sts is doable. 3?  They can go to hell.

 

[JawnyBlaze]

1 hour ago, SCO96 said:

That's the thing we really do not know. Stroud and Young play for perennial football powers. Every single year their recruiting classes are among the top 10 in the nation...and in most cases top 5. The reason certain teams always seem to be in the top 10 is because their roster is stacked with 4 and 5 star players. When QB's from those teams step on the field most of time they are more talented than the opposition. According to 247sports.com, BAMA and Ohio State are both in the top 5 for recruiting classes.

Will Levis played for Kentucky, a perennial BASKETBALL power. Kentucky can field some good teams, but we know they're never going to win a national championship because they can't even win the SEC EAST. When they go up against GA, BAMA, LSU, Florida, Tenn they are going to be outgunned in most years. My SC Gamecocks were good enough to beat Clemson and Tennessee in back to back weeks, and we still finished 3rd in the SEC East. Kentucky's recruiting class is #31 by 247sports.com

Ask your self this, would Young and Stroud be as dominant playing at Kentucky instead of BAMA and Ohio State? And, How would Levis look if he played on those teams instead of with the Wildcats? We really don't know the answer to either question. Still, I just don't see Bryce Young winning the Heisman Trophy at Kentucky. I am by no means a QB expert, but I have noticed that in recent years that some of the more productive 1st round QB's aren't coming from perennial powerhouse teams. (ex: Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Allen). All of the following have won SB's this century: Brees, Big Ben, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco. All were 1st rounders except Brees ( a high 2nd rounder). None of these guys mentioned above in either list played for a Blue Blood college program. Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers didn't win SB rings, but both have had solid NFL career. They went to Boston College and NC State.

I'm more impressed with the guys who are able do more with less talent in the collegiate ranks. Those type of guys seem to thrive in the NFL. A great QB can do more with less in the pros. His play can elevate the team and help hide/overcome deficiencies that are bound to exist on team due to the crunch of the salary cap and the movement of players due to free agency.

Yea I believe they would because I’m not just going off stats, I’m watching every throw, every decision, every play I can find.  Their stats and wins might not be as impressive at a worse school but what you see them do on tape and videos would be.  The school and talent around then only affects the assessment if all you’re doing is looking at stats and wins.  No one on his team is helping Stroud throw perfect passes with pinpoint accuracy.  It helps the stat sheet when he has great receivers who catch those passes, but if you watch the plays you can see them do things that the others can’t. 

[amcoolio]

Huddlers: We need a franchise QB

Huddlers: Also don't trade up, don't take Levis or Richardson, don't sign Carr, don't trade for Lamar/Rodgers

[GOAT]

14 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

What if being a scared mf IS my church?

[Mr. Scot]

36 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

2 1sts is doable. 3?  They can go to hell.

Mentioned in another thread but it's applicable here too: Joe Person has mocked us trading up to #3. He mentioned #5 might be more likely given the connections between our GM and Assistant GM with the Seahawks front office, but felt #3 was needed to ensure they got one of the guys they were looking for.

The guy he had them taking was Will Levis, an interesting choice given that his OC for his more successful 2021 season (Liam Coen) spent two of the last three years working closely with our new offensive coordinator (Thomas Brown) on the Rams staff.

[SCO96]

3 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

Yea I believe they would because I’m not just going off stats, I’m watching every throw, every decision, every play I can find.  Their stats and wins might not be as impressive at a worse school but what you see them do on tape and videos would be.  The school and talent around then only affects the assessment if all you’re doing is looking at stats and wins.  No one on his team is helping Stroud throw perfect passes with pinpoint accuracy.  It helps the stat sheet when he has great receivers who catch those passes, but if you watch the plays you can see them do things that the others can’t. 

Good points. But, if he's playing behind an offensive line with 4 and 5 star guys he's going to have more time to throw. If he's throwing to 5 star receivers going up against 3-4 star DB's (or worse) he's going to have more guys open. If he has an NFL caliber RB in the backfield that makes him even more dangerous.

I think Young is the most polished QB coming out. That doesn't mean he'll end up the most successful QB in the NFL. So much determines the success of a QB: Draft destination, offensive scheme, front office, talent of skill players, O-line, and even the defense. A lesser talented guy coming out of the draft could end up with better career than the more talented guy just because he end up going to a team with a much stronger foundation.

 

 

[JawnyBlaze]

1 hour ago, SCO96 said:

Good points. But, if he's playing behind an offensive line with 4 and 5 star guys he's going to have more time to throw. If he's throwing to 5 star receivers going up against 3-4 star DB's (or worse) he's going to have more guys open. If he has an NFL caliber RB in the backfield that makes him even more dangerous.

I think Young is the most polished QB coming out. That doesn't mean he'll end up the most successful QB in the NFL. So much determines the success of a QB: Draft destination, offensive scheme, front office, talent of skill players, O-line, and even the defense. A lesser talented guy coming out of the draft could end up with better career than the more talented guy just because he end up going to a team with a much stronger foundation.

 

 

Yea, just gotta pay attention to when he does have to deal with pressure. His OL wasn’t elite, neither was his RB. His receiver was but he wasn’t always open, he was a guy that could catch everything not get open every time. Watch the games (not the highlight reels), Stroud was putting the ball in the perfect place almost every time whether the receiver was open or not. I think he’s a lot more polished than Young but what Young has that Stroud doesn’t is the ability to scramble around like Russell Wilson to extend plays.