Price to move into top 3 based on past trades.

[ncfan]

 

[mrcompletely11]

^ I'm good no thanks

[WOW!!]

8 minutes ago, ncfan said:

 

For Stroud or Young and the staff and team we have I’d do it..

Jmo

[ncfan]

14 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

For Stroud or Young and the staff and team we have I’d do it..

Jmo

I’m not thinking twice.

because it’ll cost that much from 19-20 to move up for QB3-4 like a Rattler or a Bo Nix next year

[panther4life]

3 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

You realize that by your own statement, grabbing those moves in the first round neither helped nor harmed them. 

But they did hurt the teams. Most of them have had changes of coaching since then (or are on the cusp of it). In each case, it was opportunities squandered. And in the 49ers case, it was just blind luck that the injury to Lance panned out so well, between Jimmy G and Purdy. 

Opportunity cost is a real, real thing. 

We shouldn't trade up, particularly when we are in a cap crunch like we are. We need to bring in multiple new guys on draft contracts to help us offset some really bad contracts and the lingering dead cap money from others. If anything, we should be willing to trade back and pick up more capital to spend less capital.

Trading up into the first four picks of the draft, by the actual choices made historically over the last 8-9 years is just a terrible decision. The results don't lie.

 

I understand that the odds aren’t in our favor based on history of trade ups. I’m just willing to take a gamble based on where we find ourselves and that I think Stroud or Young would succeed with the rest of this roster and coaching staff.

I know you hate the idea and would like to hear what you think we should do to address the QB position?

[panther4life]

2 hours ago, SCO96 said:

True. But they didn't win with they guy they traded up for. They ended up getting a QB through a trade who had never won a playoff game with his previous team, Matthew Stafford.

 

Agreed. In hindsight the same thing happened in 2018. Allen and Jackson should have been the top 2. Baker and Sam went ahead of Josh and Rosen went ahead of Lamar. It just goes to show that the top 2 guys picked aren't guaranteed to be the top 2 QB's in the class

Wentz didn't finish the regular season or play in the postseason. Peterson's brilliant coaching that year and a strong supporting cast allowed the Eagles to beat the might Patriots with a career journeyman/backup...Nick Foles. When Foles left town Wentz was unable to hold on the job and has been traded to two different teams. The Eagles made it back to the SB with a 2nd round draft choice.

Correct. However, they were able to go most of the season with Jimmy G (2nd round pick) and Brock Purdy (7th round) as their starters. Trey Lance has contributed to none of the success the 49ers have had for the past two season. He may blossom in time, but at the current time its' looking like they didn't need to trade away all of those picks to move up to select him.

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2021/6/18/22533745/looking-back-at-the-trades-that-landed-josh-allen-for-the-buffalo-bills-notes-nfl-draft

Check out the link above for the details of this trade. Buffalo ended up jumping from #12 to #7 with 2 trades. The first with the Bengals moved them from #21 to #12. The gave away their starting tackle and pick #185 and got pick #187 in return

Then they traded with Tampa and moved from #12 to #7 and parted with two picks in the 2nd round (#53 and #56) and got #255 in retuen

They didn't away multiple #1 draft choices in back to back years like people seem to be suggesting we should do. And, as I've brought up before, the Bills were a playoff team the season before they drafted Allen with Tyrod Taylor at QB. I love Allen play, but so far he has yet to make it to an AFC Conference title game.

Moving up to get QB's in the top 5 in recent years has not produced one QB who won a SB with the team that drafted him.

 

What’s your plan for QB and winning a SB?

[Bear Hands]

23 minutes ago, ncfan said:

I’m not thinking twice.

because it’ll cost that much from 19-20 to move up for QB3-4 like a Rattler or a Bo Nix next year

Rattler or Nix?

[ncfan]

5 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Rattler or Nix?

There’s really no one outside of Maye and Williams in the class next year that even stick out the way Young and Stroud has been the last 2 years.  A bunch of unknowns.

[Pazhoosier89]

2 minutes ago, ncfan said:

There’s really no one outside of Maye and Williams in the class next year that even stick out the way Young and Stroud has been the last 2 years.  A bunch of unknowns.

Michael Penix is the only one but he has injury concerns.

[Bear Hands]

5 minutes ago, ncfan said:

There’s really no one outside of Maye and Williams in the class next year that even stick out the way Young and Stroud has been the last 2 years.  A bunch of unknowns.

Rattler is in this class, no? I was just confused.  

I'd say Ewers is on the top tier watchlist.  Pratt, Daniels, Ward & Penix are all on that Nix-tier watchlist.

[ncfan]

2 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Rattler is in this class, no? I was just confused.  

I'd say Ewers is on the top tier watchlist.  Pratt, Daniels, Ward & Penix are all on that Nix-tier watchlist.

Ewers is decent off the hype.  Had a lower completion pct than Levis and about the same TD/int ratio.

Ward maybe?  Bo Nix was was pretty much nothing until this year out in Oregon.  But to me,  he reminds me a ton of Mitch Trubisky.  Penix had a Good season, but again, a Massive injury history.

[Bear Hands]

2 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Ewers is decent off the hype.  Had a lower completion pct than Levis and about the same TD/int ratio.

Ward maybe?  Bo Nix was was pretty much nothing until this year out in Oregon.  But to me,  he reminds me a ton of Mitch Trubisky.  Penix had a Good season, but again, a Massive injury history.

I personally love how Jayden developed and am big on Pratt.  Daniels could've declared and gone ahead of Hooker and McKee this year.  But him running it back and showing out again could get him 1st round grades.  He really progressed as a passer, made huge strides.  

I also really enjoyed watching Ward play, but he has some stuff to work on.  Penix needs to have another stellar season to fully separate himself from the injuries/Indiana days.  

At the end of the day though, I agree none are really worth waiting for compared to this class with one of Levis/Young/Stroud likely in reach & considering Richardson's potential.      

 

 

 

[SCO96]

14 minutes ago, panther4life said:

What’s your plan for QB and winning a SB?

Since you asked, I'll go into fantasy GM mode.

Assuming we didn't sign a FA this offseason, here's what I'd do.

I'd interview the top 5-6 QB's and learn everything that I possibly could about them in terms strengths, weaknesses, mindset etc. 

I'd ask the coaches if they thought they could work with & groom a franchise QB with any of the guys besides Stroud or Young. If the OC, QB coach, and HC all said "No". I'd actually consider trading up if I didn't have to give up a #1 or #2 in 2025. 

If they said "there are two or three guys in this draft that we feel we can win with", I'd stay put at 9 and take a QB in round one. I'd use our two #2's and our #3 pick on Day two of the draft with the intention of coming away with three starters or at least 2 starters and 1 solid contributor. I'd use day 3 and 4 for depth picks and to possibly find some diamonds in the rough. I'd want the rookie behind center by midseason unless he was absolutely not ready to play. If he were ready I'd start him on week one.

Our division is weak. The goal would be to win the NFC South in 2023. I would not go into the season thinking we were a SB contender. Our cap clears up significantly in 2024. I'd go into the 2024 preseason with the thoughts of filling any remaining holes with FA's and strong 2024 draft with the intention of making to make a deep playoff run in 2024, definitely no later than 2025.

[Khyber53]

55 minutes ago, panther4life said:

I understand that the odds aren’t in our favor based on history of trade ups. I’m just willing to take a gamble based on where we find ourselves and that I think Stroud or Young would succeed with the rest of this roster and coaching staff.

I know you hate the idea and would like to hear what you think we should do to address the QB position?

I've said it elsewhere, many times over. Here we go again.

I'd stay out of the Carr, Lamar and probably Aaron Rodgers kerfuffle that is going to see at least two teams overpay and get cheated. Look for another vet to fall out of contention who can serve as a good bridge/backup.

Let the coaching staff take a good, solid look at Matt Corral -- which I am sure they have already done at this point. If they think there is a possibility there, go with him and look to add that veteran presence to help him mature quickly. If he's not the guy, then move to the draft.

In the draft, forget about the massive manboy crushes the four top QBs are attracting right now. Two out of four are statistically going to wash out and cost teams mightily. There's a chance that it's three out of four. Let someone else waste good potential on bad returns. One out of the four will most likely be excellent, but which one... no one knows.

In the first round, we set back and let the worst teams pursue those QBs, leaving much better players on the board at #9 than one would normally expect. We take the best player available. My pecking order for this would be DE, TE, LB, CB. At number nine it is almost guaranteed that at least one of bona fide best at their position players will be left in one of those spots. Take them.

In our first pick in the second round, grab the best of the remaining positional guys from what is left from that list of four.

Stay out of the quarterback race at all until the end of the second, probably the early third round. There are going to be some very good QBs there... Tennessee, Georgia and TCU will all have QBs out there still, perhaps not Madden-darlings, but solid, battle tested and championship earning guys. There's where the finds of the draft will be. Grab the one that best suits our coaching staff's long-term vision. Go into camp with them and Corral competing for the job, spurred along and cushioned by a good journeyman vet.

Wish PJ Walker the best and maybe give Darnold a chance for back-up QB money, perhaps with some incentives for playoff performance.

Build the team they want and give some QBs a chance. If those QBs don't clear the bar, we still have high picks out there and the perennially bad teams will have probably four high pick QBs filling their rosters and won't be in the immediate running next year.