Carr Watch

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, stan786 said:

Yeah i'm saying Carr has gone to the Saints and Jets and has met with them again in Indy, we had our first meeting with him. Would have been shocked if we didnt bring Tepper in even if we just wanted to kick the tires. Both because Carr clearly is doing his research and I cant imagine he'd take us seriously if we didnt put in the same effort as the other teams, and how involved Tepper has been consistently in this QB hunt.

I'm guessing you don't want Carr.

[stan786]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm guessing you don't want Carr.

I mean I would say I dont want Carr about as much as you want Carr based on my read. One of those where I trust the org but I dont really think its in our best interest, where the feel I get from you is you trust the org but you think he'd be a good fit. I could be wrong though dont want to put words in your mouth just more trying to give a comp.

Regardless that doesnt matter its more about the situation than my feelings. Tepper is in Indy and is going to be part of this QB hunt, there is zero reason he shouldnt have been in that meeting if we were kicking the tires.

I'm not downplaying it, if he wasnt in there that would have been a sign we werent interested at all so there is something to it, but its not really a giant tell in any direction past what we already know (that we were going to talk to Carr and kick the tires as part of our QB search)

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, stan786 said:

I mean I would say I dont want Carr about as much as you want Carr based on my read. One of those where I trust the org but I dont really think its in our best interest, where the feel I get from you is you trust the org but you think he'd be a good fit. I could be wrong though dont want to put words in your mouth just more trying to give a comp.

Regardless that doesnt matter its more about the situation than my feelings. Tepper is in Indy and is going to be part of this QB hunt, there is zero reason he shouldnt have been in that meeting if we were kicking the tires.

I'm not downplaying it, if he wasnt in there that would have been a sign we werent interested at all so there is something to it, but its not really a giant tell in any direction past what we already know (that we were going to talk to Carr and kick the tires as part of our QB search)

Sorry dude but yeah, I think you're downplaying it.

As for me, I've said repeatedly that I'm happy whether we sign him or not. It's just a matter of approach.

I trust the people we have running the show now.

[stan786]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Sorry dude but yeah, I think you're downplaying it.

As for me, I've said repeatedly that I'm happy whether we sign him or not. It's just a matter of approach.

I trust the people we have running the show now.

And I would say your are over selling it. Sorry as well man.

[Leaky_Faucet]

Panthers really have two ideal options. A) is Derek Carr which as I said before is mainly from the front office but Brown and Reich are both interested in this possibility. B) Pairing a young QB with a Darnold-like player such as Sam or Andy Dalton, and this is more coaching staff driven. 
 

They really like Will Levis and he would be their option if the draft were today but keep in mind it is combine week, so this could change. They also like Stroud but there is not a lot of support from the front office to go up that high. 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, stan786 said:

And I would say your are over selling it. Sorry as well man.

I got nothing to sell, just analyzing.

And as you can see looking back, I'm not the only one who looked at it this way.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Leaky_Faucet said:

Panthers really have two ideal options. A) is Derek Carr which as I said before is mainly from the front office but Brown and Reich are both interested in this possibility. B) Pairing a young QB with a Darnold-like player such as Sam or Andy Dalton, and this is more coaching staff driven. 
 

They really like Will Levis and he would be their option if the draft were today but keep in mind it is combine week, so this could change. They also like Stroud but there is not a lot of support from the front office to go up that high. 

Thanks, dude...or non-dude...

[stan786]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I got nothing to sell, just analyzing.

And as you can see looking back, I'm not the only one who looked at it this way.

Same, just analyzing it.

Others also share my opinion. Its ok to disagree just having a conversation neither of us have to be "Right".

I am just stating based on past evidence and the current situation this should have been expected.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, stan786 said:

Same, just analyzing it.

Others also share my opinion. Its ok to disagree just having a conversation neither of us have to be "Right".

I am just stating based on past evidence and the current situation this should have been expected.

Yeah sorry, I disagree.

[stan786]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah sorry, I disagree.

So lets agree to disagree, doesnt have to be a competition in who is more right lol.

[SpclKen]

1 hour ago, ECHornet said:

If Trubisky and Carr had the same amount of attempts rushing and passing per game, and we assume everything else remained the same, here’s what the stats say you could expect from both per game:

 

I am not trying to hop in the middle of anything, but I just had to say this is a very poor way to do player evaluations and comparisons. You are in imagination land with all the assumptions and expectations you are using to extrapolate these numbers. I don't want to just blast what you say with no constructive criticism so i will add a little bit of context as to why I personally think this is a horrible evaluation on your part.

You cannot add attempts and invent whole cloth new numbers for a player. There is a reason that some QBs throw for 30 attempts a game and others for 15. They have different skill sets and abilities and play within different schemes. Play callers and offenses are structured around players and are not just plug and play. You can't get "90% of production if he threw more" when a QB has a drastically different skill set and in very different offenses. The problem is that the coaches don't trust Trubisky to throw more because of his limitations.

Any numbers driven comparison HAS to be coupled with player evaluation. In this case Carr is a significantly better QB than Trubisky and you don't have to go further than how the league evaluates and what they have made in contract and opportunity over their respective careers.

I do think your strategy of paying for a low cost veteran instead of breaking the bank for Derrick Carr is a good one, but you don't need to invent numbers to "Prove" that is the best strategy. Just Say Carr would be overpaid for what he is and what he will command in the market and assigning that salary to that level of player would hurt the Carolina's ability to compete for a long time.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, stan786 said:

So lets agree to disagree, doesnt have to be a competition in who is more right lol.

Nah...

But I am

[ECHornet]

10 minutes ago, SpclKen said:

I am not trying to hop in the middle of anything, but I just had to say this is a very poor way to do player evaluations and comparisons. You are in imagination land with all the assumptions and expectations you are using to extrapolate these numbers. I don't want to just blast what you say with no constructive criticism so i will add a little bit of context as to why I personally think this is a horrible evaluation on your part.

You cannot add attempts and invent whole cloth new numbers for a player. There is a reason that some QBs throw for 30 attempts a game and others for 15. They have different skill sets and abilities and play within different schemes. Play callers and offenses are structured around players and are not just plug and play. You can't get "90% of production if he threw more" when a QB has a drastically different skill set and in very different offenses. The problem is that the coaches don't trust Trubisky to throw more because of his limitations.

Any numbers driven comparison HAS to be coupled with player evaluation. In this case Carr is a significantly better QB than Trubisky and you don't have to go further than how the league evaluates and what they have made in contract and opportunity over their respective careers.

I do think your strategy of paying for a low cost veteran instead of breaking the bank for Derrick Carr is a good one, but you don't need to invent numbers to "Prove" that is the best strategy. Just Say Carr would be overpaid for what he is and what he will command in the market and assigning that salary to that level of player would hurt the Carolina's ability to compete for a long time.

Presenting the stats that way was an attempt to simplify and show that Trubisky is nearly as successful on his pass attempts as Carr. I stand by that. Clearly, some posters have shown an inability in looking at the raw stats as is without going to "total this, total that." 

Look at his per game stats. Carr's are not $30mil better. I hope no one would argue Trubisky has had a better supporting cast over that time.

Sure. Of course the type of offense, skillset, and coach's trust should factor in to player evals. At some point, production comes in to play.

Question for you....

Looking at those per game statistics, do you view Carr as far more productive than Trubisky per game?

Edited March 1, 2023 by ECHornet

[Jon Snow]

17 minutes ago, Leaky_Faucet said:

Panthers really have two ideal options. A) is Derek Carr which as I said before is mainly from the front office but Brown and Reich are both interested in this possibility. B) Pairing a young QB with a Darnold-like player such as Sam or Andy Dalton, and this is more coaching staff driven. 
 

They really like Will Levis and he would be their option if the draft were today but keep in mind it is combine week, so this could change. They also like Stroud but there is not a lot of support from the front office to go up that high. 

This has been my suspension as well.  There has been only two options that are a realistic possibility. Go with a vet because getting up to the 1st pick is a pipe dream or try to get Levis if he falls far enough or another rookie and pairing him with some like Darnold.  But I would be surprised if it is Darnold they sign to be the mentor. Although he wouldn't be a bad choice.