Interesting twist regarding Lamar Jackson...

[Mr. Scot]

7 hours ago, top dawg said:

Yes, it is in regards to Lamar Jackson suddenly becoming a bad player. And you know it, just as well as everyone else knows it. It's simply a preposterous notion.

System fit matters, injuries affect level of play, and it's not like no player has ever gone into cruise control after getting paid (especially guaranteed pay).

Yes, it's possible.

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

System fit matters, injuries affect level of play, and it's not like no player has ever gone into cruise control after getting paid (especially guaranteed pay).

Yes, it's possible.

He mentioned flopping and then staying injured. There was a delineation, and that's how I addressed the statement. Within that context, being injured and actually being a flop are separate issues. That being said, if you want to look at injuries as flopping or leading to flopping, then fine. The risk of injury is just a part of the game. 

Regarding system fit, I believe that Lamar Jackson can fit lots of systems unlike some here trying to suggest that he can't throw or can't throe from.the pocket blah blah blah. He's an adept thrower as his career passing rating indicates, and he's certainly far from a Michael Vick or even Cam Newton level as far as that goes. More importantly, Reich already said in so many words that we all see in which direction the NFL is moving pertaining to successful franchises and successful QBs. The days of statues in the pocket are diminishing. 

If you want to know about our system and whether LJ would work in it, here is what Reich said (courtesy of panthers.com):

"It's a passing league but you have to run the ball to be a championship team. There's exceptions to that. When you look at the analytics and the statistics over the years. You got to be effective running the football and efficient running the football. That's of the reasons I'm excited about this roster. I know we can do that. We'll get the pass game right. I know we can run the football and we're going to run the football. Because that just builds off the play action. Off the RPO stuff. All the movement stuff. That's what you want to build. What offensively you're always trying to do is to create conflict in the defender. Put a seed of doubt in the defender's mind. Is it run? Is it pass? Is it the RPO? Is it the first level RPO? Is it the second level? Are they going deep? Compliment everything together. It starts with running the football. Then the second principle is you have to get the ball vertical down the field. You have to get chunk plays. All the statistics. All the analytics. That's one of the reasons why I'm excited to work for Mr. (David) Tepper, because if anybody who knows analytics, it's him and all of his businesses. He gets this as much as anybody. It's hard to go 14 play drives all the time. You got to get chunk plays down the field. We need to be able to run the ball, have play action, get it vertical and have the kind of players and quarterback that can do that."

Now you may engage in all the mental gymnastics in the world, but there is no way that LJ is not a system fit for that. But, if for some reason, you want to fool yourself, here is a part that they did not include in the official transcript, but NFL.com didn't leave this part out.

 

"Reich acknowledged that every quarterback must, at some point, win from the pocket but sounded as if he'd like to run an offense that includes a dual-threat option."

"We all know the way the game's going, right?" he said. "We all know the game is going to a more movement-style quarterback. I embrace that. I love that. We worked with some in Philadelphia, worked with Carson Wentz, and we did a lot of good things with movement, RPOs, play-action, all that stuff. Same thing in the years in Indy. We had some dropback, some movement guys. Ultimately, we can adapt to whatever, but where the game is going, most of the guys coming out in college have more movement, right? That has some advantages."

So, system fit would NOT be an issue. Like I have said before, the only real issue with Lamar is injury. But you can use injury as a reason not to acquire many players. Unfortunately it's a part of the game, and it's not like Jackson has had anything major. Personally, I don't believe that that's going to be the sole reason for stopping anyone, much less us for at least trying to get a deal done if it comes to that. 

 

 

[The Lobo]

15 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Everybody was saying the same stuff about Watson a year ago.

Watson only played in, what, 7 games last year after missing nearly two years. He improved a little every game. If he sucks the first couple of games next season, then we can all call him a flop.

[DaveThePanther2008]

I can see why Baltimore would use this approach..  Let another team negotiate the deal and than match it. 

[Mr. Scot]

30 minutes ago, top dawg said:

He mentioned flopping and then staying injured. There was a delineation, and that's how I addressed the statement. Within that context, being injured and actually being a flop are separate issues. That being said, if you want to look at injuries as flopping or leading to flopping, then fine. The risk of injury is just a part of the game. 

Regarding system fit, I believe that Lamar Jackson can fit lots of systems unlike some here trying to suggest that he can't throw or can't throe from.the pocket blah blah blah. He's an adept thrower as his career passing rating indicates, and he's certainly far from a Michael Vick or even Cam Newton level as far as that goes. More importantly, Reich already said in so many words that we all see in which direction the NFL is moving pertaining to successful franchises and successful QBs. The days of statues in the pocket are diminishing. 

If you want to know about our system and whether LJ would work in it, here is what Reich said (courtesy of panthers.com):

"It's a passing league but you have to run the ball to be a championship team. There's exceptions to that. When you look at the analytics and the statistics over the years. You got to be effective running the football and efficient running the football. That's of the reasons I'm excited about this roster. I know we can do that. We'll get the pass game right. I know we can run the football and we're going to run the football. Because that just builds off the play action. Off the RPO stuff. All the movement stuff. That's what you want to build. What offensively you're always trying to do is to create conflict in the defender. Put a seed of doubt in the defender's mind. Is it run? Is it pass? Is it the RPO? Is it the first level RPO? Is it the second level? Are they going deep? Compliment everything together. It starts with running the football. Then the second principle is you have to get the ball vertical down the field. You have to get chunk plays. All the statistics. All the analytics. That's one of the reasons why I'm excited to work for Mr. (David) Tepper, because if anybody who knows analytics, it's him and all of his businesses. He gets this as much as anybody. It's hard to go 14 play drives all the time. You got to get chunk plays down the field. We need to be able to run the ball, have play action, get it vertical and have the kind of players and quarterback that can do that."

Now you may engage in all the mental gymnastics in the world, but there is no way that LJ is not a system fit for that. But, if for some reason, you want to fool yourself, here is a part that they did not include in the official transcript, but NFL.com didn't leave this part out.

 

"Reich acknowledged that every quarterback must, at some point, win from the pocket but sounded as if he'd like to run an offense that includes a dual-threat option."

"We all know the way the game's going, right?" he said. "We all know the game is going to a more movement-style quarterback. I embrace that. I love that. We worked with some in Philadelphia, worked with Carson Wentz, and we did a lot of good things with movement, RPOs, play-action, all that stuff. Same thing in the years in Indy. We had some dropback, some movement guys. Ultimately, we can adapt to whatever, but where the game is going, most of the guys coming out in college have more movement, right? That has some advantages."

So, system fit would NOT be an issue. Like I have said before, the only real issue with Lamar is injury. But you can use injury as a reason not to acquire many players. Unfortunately it's a part of the game, and it's not like Jackson has had anything major. Personally, I don't believe that that's going to be the sole reason for stopping anyone, much less us for at least trying to get a deal done if it comes to that. 

You don't believe a guy who's missed ten games over the past seasons would (or should) have any trouble getting a fully guaranteed contract?

Dude, you are way off the rails on this one.

[Khyber53]

25 minutes ago, The Lobo said:

Watson only played in, what, 7 games last year after missing nearly two years. He improved a little every game. If he sucks the first couple of games next season, then we can all call him a flop.

Or if he starts looking for more happy endings. The Browns didn't get what they hoped for, might have gotten what they deserved.

[Proudiddy]

30 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You don't believe a guy who's missed ten games over the past seasons would (or should) have any trouble getting a fully guaranteed contract?

Dude, you are way off the rails on this one.

To be fair in regards to the injury argument against Lamar - a bulk of the games he missed were this past season with the knee issue, and from what I was hearing, some believed he was fully healed a long time ago but purposely sat out because they hadn't extended him, and I can't blame him.

[Mr. Scot]

16 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

To be fair in regards to the injury argument against Lamar - a bulk of the games he missed were this past season with the knee issue, and from what I was hearing, some believed he was fully healed a long time ago but purposely sat out because they hadn't extended him, and I can't blame him.

I'd be willing to bet some of his teammates would.

(not really something I'd like hearing as a coach or personnel guy either)

Edited February 18, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[top dawg]

4 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

You don't believe a guy who's missed ten games over the past seasons would (or should) have any trouble getting a fully guaranteed contract?

Dude, you are way off the rails on this one.

Where have I ever said that he should get a fully guaranteed contract. In fact, what I said is that I think that he's going to have to compromise, and that he probably was going to be disappointed with the market if he wants a contract that is too over the top. Just what exactly have you been reading? It surely hasn't been my posts.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Where have I ever said that he should get a fully guaranteed contract. In fact, what I said is that I think that he's going to have to compromise, and that he probably was going to be disappointed with the market if he wants a contract that is too over the top. Just what exactly have you been reading? It surely hasn't been my posts.

He's shown no inclination toward that so far.

If he's willing to compromise though, why wouldn't he do it with the Ravens?

[bythenbrs]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

He's shown no inclination toward that so far.

If he's willing to compromise though, why wouldn't he do it with the Ravens?

Because he has an idiot for an agent…

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, bythenbrs said:

Because he has an idiot for an agent…

Well, there is that

[SameDamnThing]

Lamar and the Ravens are where they are because they’ve both seen the same things. Lamar Jackson’s medicals. 

[SameDamnThing]

Additionally, there are a few reasons not to do this. 
 

Cam Newton after 30. 
Michael Vick after 30. 
Randall Cunningham after 30. 
Your favorite HB after 30. 
 

it might be even worse with Lamar because of the speed of the game now compared even to the time Cam was dominating. Dual threat guys have been somewhat caged by defense going speed only and the arms are coming back into style. So are big bodied TE that edge rushers can’t cover for 3 downs.