Quarterbacks win championships

[Growl]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Trivia question: Who was the last #1 draft pick QB to win a Super Bowl with their original draft team? (Name, SB year and draft year).

nobody cares

[TJKJ23xx]

I think it's a mix honestly. Not all Franchise QBs can or have won. It's a mix of coaching and QB neither fully outweighing the other. 50/50 split. Mahomes being a few tiers higher than his peers surely helps but he is an anomaly. Reid has been one of the more successful coaches of our time. 2-2 in Super Bowls now with both losses being to Brady aint too shabby. 

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, Growl said:

nobody cares

Why exactly?  (I know why).

[Growl]

3 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Why exactly?  (I know why).

/cdn-cgi/mirage/a6d337f3adc02e4fcbc2c284fa37b730e1e60e7bc69e6faaf5f6a7e4409715a1/1280/https://media4.giphy.com/media/3Ybuu8DQaljag/200.gif

so just to be clear it’s actually a good idea to draft a QB high when “next year” comes but it’s systematically a bad idea now

[Samppson]

11 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

The goal isn't just to get a franchise QB. The goal is to build a team around a franchise QB. If you cripple your ability to do that, then you likely waste your franchise QB. That's why you rarely see teams trade for franchise QBs. They can't afford the salary and the picks. You can do one or the other, not both.

That's not true, the reason teams rarely trade for franchise QBs is they become available for trade very rarely. Especially one that isn't past their prime, and is still on the younger side. Any time that has happened, there has been many suitors willing to trade multiple first rounders. If you have a true guy like that, they can cover up so many holes on your roster. Is it ideal to draft one and only spend a single first rounder? Sure, and I'm on board with that approach, but let's not act like if Burrow/Herbert/Allen became available, you would have more than half the league willing to give up any draft picks for them.

 

[DeAngelo Beason]

38 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

Good post. But, QB's just don't "will their teams to victory". QB's don't block, catch passes (at least most of the time), make tackles, intercept passes and force fumbles, kick FG's, or run back kicks. You put a Mahomes, Brady, or Montana on a team that cannot competently do all of the above on a consistent basis, or when it matters most, they won't win SB's.

If you put a Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, Jim Plunkett, Jeff Hostetler on a team that does all of the above very well and the the latter guys don't turn the ball over & make three or four big plays per game, and get the ball out on time, you can win with them.

None of the top tier QB's you allude in your post to played on bad/mediocre teams.

 

When you have to go back 40+ years to find a reasonable sample size of teams that could win a championship with a piss poor QB you make my point for me.

You don't think the niners win two or three superbowls with a legit QB vs Jimmy?

You don't think the Panthers win Superbowl 38 with someone like Peyton Manning under center?

You think the Chiefs win yesterday's game, or even make the playoffs, with Trent Dilfer as QB?

 

Come on man.

 

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, Growl said:

so just to be clear it’s actually a good idea to draft a QB high when “next year” comes but it’s systematically a bad idea now

If all things were static and the same from year-to-year, I would agree.  However, that's not the case.  Again, after weak/thin QB classes in consecutive years, the QB pool is deep and talented for 2024.  Maybe we won't even have to move up far, if any spots at all.  Crazy, I know.

[Jon Snow]

51 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Yup, and to the dismay of many, I'm will to wait for a loaded 2024 QB class.  Where this class was supposed to be deep, albeit light at the top of the board--next year's class is both deep and top heavy.

You won't know that until next season is played out.  Just as this year's class was supposed to be deep before this past season was played.  Now look at it. 

But there's still good prospects in the draft if you have the scouts that can identify the kind of qb you should take a chance on. That's the real question. 

We are taking a qb. Odds are it will not be who the huddle majority want. Which will automatically make him a bust the first incomplete pass he throws.

[Growl]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

If all things were static and the same from year-to-year, I would agree.  However, that's not the case.  Again, after weak/thin QB classes in consecutive years, the QB pool is deep and talented for 2024.  Maybe we won't even have to move up far, if any spots at all.  Crazy, I know.

but #1 overall picks still won’t have won a super bowl in X amount of seasons, why bother then?

the team needs to move down, stockpile lots of interior linemen, and continue trying to show the nfl that it’s not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game that matters. I wanna see a team less focused on super bowl glory and more focused on trying to prove it can still be done the old way. 
 

hopefully we’ll get some rules changes that make the cap more powerful too, tired of seeing all these teams just ignore it, good financial sensibility should trump this “win at all cost” hysteria, this ain’t madden!! 

[45catfan]

2 hours ago, 45catfan said:

Really?  You must not spend much time on the board anymore.  I mean, the Huddle will be calling for Tepper's, Fitterer and Reich's collective heads if we don't move up for a QB this draft as we sit at #9.  Entire threads have been dedicated to moving up for a QB because it's a MUST.

In theory I agree there's not much of a difference in the top 10 unless there's a generational QB at the top of the board.  This draft there is not.  That is not stopping this forum from demanding a trade up though.

 

13 minutes ago, TJKJ23xx said:

I have been trying to dissuade myself from thinking the QB of the future has to be drafted this year. Yes, next year will have more sexy options in Drake Maye and Caleb Williams but there is one QB in this draft I hate to say has really been growing on me. I feel CJ Stroud could be great if drafted in the right situation and I think the Panthers finally have the staff to make that move. If we have to trade a future first and second so be it. Everything I have seen from him the last two years being a Michigan fan and how he guided his team to almost beating UGA really shows me how poised and un fazed by pressure he is. Really delving deep into every break down only shows issues with his game that can be course correct by coaching. You cannot teach his ability to stay calm under pressure or his athletic ability he uses when needed rather than rproperly progressing through his options. I have yet to see him be the sole reason his team has lost a game in any film I have watched. I just have a feeling that he could be what finally gets us over the top and I hope trading up to 1-3 nets us him no matter the cost. 

Right on cue, I mean this one did take about two hours after my post, lol! 

[tecc86]

Not just a quarterback, a quarterback who is willing to put his career on the line to do whatever it takes to win the game.

The toughness of Patrick Mahomes cannot be understated.

Edited February 13, 2023 by tecc86

[joemac]

13 hours ago, Wolfcop said:

May get Carr AND a rookie 

If we do get Carr there is no way in hell that we draft a QB at 9.  I could see a LB, DE or even WR in that scenario. 

[Growl]

drake maye isn’t going to be the QB of the panthers, cope

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Growl said:

drake maye isn’t going to be the QB of the panthers, cope

But we just hired his high school quarterback coach