Quarterbacks win championships

[CamWhoaaCam]

3 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

The goal isn't just to get a franchise QB. The goal is to build a team around a franchise QB. If you cripple your ability to do that, then you likely waste your franchise QB. That's why you rarely see teams trade for franchise QBs. They can't afford the salary and the picks. You can do one or the other, not both.

We ain't crippling anything.

 

We already a upgrade over Baltimore talent wise.

 

You act like this team is far away from being a threat. We damn near made the playoffs with Sam Darnold. You realize how much better we would be with a MVP level QB like Lamar?

 

*Btw Lamar is not my only option im all for getting 1 of the top 4 QB's in this draft.

 

[SCO96]

47 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

That's true but not on this forum.

 

You got people suggesting Derek Carr over a franchise MVP QB Lamar Jackson.lmao

 

Some people just don't know football.

 

Don't believe go check out the Derek Carr thread. People really want that to lead us to a SB. Like dude has 1 playoff appearance in his entire career and he's 32 wtf!

 

I love you guys but some of you are funny as sh!t!

I'm not a Derek Carr fan. As I said in an earlier post I'm indifferent to him. But, he's had the misfortune of playing with the Raiders, one of the most dysfunctional franchises in the NFL.  Carr entered the league in 2014. Look at the coaches that he's played for.

Josh McDaniels	2022	Las Vegas Raiders	6-11-0
Jon Gruden	2018-2021	Las Vegas Raiders	29-36-0	0-1-0
Jack Del Rio	2015-2017	Oakland Raiders	25-23-0	0-1-0
Tony Sparano	2014	Oakland Raiders	3-9-0
Dennis Allen	2012-2014	Oakland Raiders	8-28-0

He's played for five different coaches in 9 years, and only one of them has a winning record. He may share some of the blame for the Raider lack of success, but it defintely isn't all on him. These aren't the Raiders I grew up with in the late 70's and early 80's. Their front office leaves a lot to be desired.

Check our the link below to see how just bad they've been for the past 25 years. Their dysfunction started a long time before David Carr joined that team.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/raiders-head-coaches-since-2014 

As far as Lamar Jackson, I love watching him play. But, if we want to compete for a SB we need a QB who is actually going to stay healthy enough to play in the postseason. He literally hasn't finished the last two seasons but it appears he wants to set the market with his next contract. His playoff record is 1-4 with no trips to the AFC title game. He hasn't exactly lit it up in the post season either.

BTW, I'm all in on drafting a rookie and grooming him to lead the team for the rest of the decade. I won't be disappointed at all if we pass on Carr (no pun intended). But, I don't think he's a scrub QB either. Don't forget that he also played in a division with a KC team that hasn't played a road playoff game since Mahomes took over as starter and won 2 of the last 4 Super Bowls.

 

[CamWhoaaCam]

Just now, SCO96 said:

I'm not a Derek Carr fan. As I said in an earlier post I'm indifferent to him. But, he's had the misfortune of playing with the Raiders, one of the most dysfunctional franchises in the NFL.  Carr entered the league in 2014. Look at the coaches that he's played for.

Josh McDaniels	2022	Las Vegas Raiders	6-11-0
Jon Gruden	2018-2021	Las Vegas Raiders	29-36-0	0-1-0
Jack Del Rio	2015-2017	Oakland Raiders	25-23-0	0-1-0
Tony Sparano	2014	Oakland Raiders	3-9-0
Dennis Allen	2012-2014	Oakland Raiders	8-28-0

He's played for five different coaches in 9 years, and only one of them has a winning record. He may share some of the blame for the Raider lack of success, but it defintely isn't all on him. These aren't the Raiders I grew up with in the late 70's and early 80's. Their front office leaves a lot to be desired.

Check our the link below to see how just bad they've been for the past 25 years. Their dysfunction started a long time before David Carr joined that team.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/raiders-head-coaches-since-2014 

As far as Lamar Jackson, I love watching him play. But, if we want to compete for a SB we need a QB who is actually going to stay healthy enough to play in the postseason. He literally hasn't finished the last two seasons but it appears he wants to set the market with his next contract. His playoff record is 1-4 with no trips to the AFC title game. He hasn't exactly lit it up in the post season either.

BTW, I'm all in on drafting a rookie and grooming him to lead the team for the rest of the decade. I won't be disappointed at all if we pass on Carr (no pun intended). But, I don't think he's a scrub QB either. Don't forget that he also played in a division with a KC team that hasn't played a road playoff game since Mahomes took over as starter and won 2 of the last 4 Super Bowls.

 

If you blame the franchise for his mistakes than he is not a franchise QB.

 

Burrow turned around the Bengals. If you're that guy success will follow.

 

Carr had a top 5 TE and the best WR in football. Lamar Jackson never had those type of weapons.

[Brooklyn 3.0]

Can we get an IP check on CamWhoaaCam and Catsfan69? That'd be funny if it was the same guy, but trolling opposite ends of the argument for fun.

[CPantherKing]

Live in the past?

Andy Reid has been to the past 3 of 4 SBs. He has contended for SBs with the Eagles and Chiefs before Mahomes. He learned from Mike Holmgren who went to SBs with the Packers and Seahawks with a 2nd and 6th round QB in Brett Favre and Matt Hasselbeck. Holmgren learned from Walsh who created a dynasty with a 3rd round QB in Montana while making other QBs playoff contenders as well in Dan Fouts and Ken Anderson. Walsh learned from Paul Brown who won championships before the SB was ever an event with a QB by the name of Otto Graham.

This is still done the same way as the past.

And you always need a good defense that creates turnovers and pressure the QB to even stand a chance. No HC or QB will win it all for a team without a good defense.

[SCO96]

24 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

If you blame the franchise for his mistakes than he is not a franchise QB.

 

Burrow turned around the Bengals. If you're that guy success will follow.

 

Carr had a top 5 TE and the best WR in football. Lamar Jackson never had those type of weapons.

First statement isn't entirely true. A great QB can elevate a bad franchise, but he can't win a SB with an inept front office. The Lions front office was bad for years. Barry Sanders and Calving Johnson retired at their peak rather than continue playing for them.  Matt Stafford coudn't win a playoff game in Detroit. He goes to LA and wins a SB in his first year there. He was added to a franchise that had already pieces in place to complement his game. Then they went out and acquird OBJ midseason. 

I see you didn't bother all the great players Carr had on defense while he's been there  Oh wait, you cant because the Raiders really haven't had any except Kahlil Mack, and they traded him Bears before his rookie deal was up because they didn't want to pay him. 

Burrow had Tee Higgins and Ja'marr Chase to throw to in his 2nd season. That defense improved significantly between 2021 and 2022, and may be the most underrated defensive unit in football. Joe Mixon is solid at RB. No way he get to the playoffs, much less the SB, with the team that  the Bengals put on the field in 2021.

Lamar doesn't have all-pro WR's to throw to but their offensive schemes and running gameput points on the scoreboard and the Ravens alway seem to have a defense formidable enough  to keep them competitive year in and year out.

Like I said, I'm not a Carr fan. But let's be honest. How may QB's do you think could have won a SB with the Raiders franchise during the past 25 years?

Edited February 13, 2023 by SCO96

[CamWhoaaCam]

2 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

First statement isn't entirely true. A great QB can elevate a bad franchise, but he can't win a SB with an inept front office. The Lions front office was bad for years. Barry Sanders and Calving Johnson retired at their peak rather than continue playing for them.  Matt Stafford coudn't win a playoff game in Detroit. He goes to LA and wins a SB in his first year there. He was added to a franchise that had already pieces in place to complement his game. Then they went out and acquird OBJ midseason. 

Stafford went to a superteam.

We can't provide Carr with that so I don't get your point on Stafford.

 

[SCO96]

Just now, CamWhoaaCam said:

Stafford went to a superteam.

We can't provide Carr with that so I don't get your point on Stafford.

 

Stafford is living proof that a bad franchise can keep a player form reaching his potential or ultimate goal of winning a championship.

We haven't had a winning season since 2017.

We haven't had back to back winning season in our 28 year history.

We've been so bad since Tepper acquired the team that I'd be happy to make the playoffs, win the division title and  finish above .500 two years in a row. 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

"Great quarterbacks win championships"

- Dan Marino has now entered the conversation

https://www.nbcsports.com/football/nfl/best-qbs-never-win-super-bowl-0#:~:text=Marino played in one Super,league six times in completions.

[bobcat91]

No to Lamar, Carr or anyone else who's teams are trying to get rid of them. These a reason for that. Package pics and go get Stroud. It's a qb driven leage and we don't have one

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SCO96]

8 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

"Great quarterbacks win championships"

- Dan Marino has now entered the conversation

https://www.nbcsports.com/football/nfl/best-qbs-never-win-super-bowl-0#:~:text=Marino played in one Super,league six times in completions.

I’ve never seen a QB win a Super Bowl that didn’t have a strong supporting cast on both sides of the all. Teams, not QBs, win championships. That’s why it would be ridiculous for us to trade away multiple high draft choices in multiple years to move up the 1st or 2nd spot in the draft to grab a QB. Outside of our O-line and possibly our RB tandem, what other position group in is actually strong on our team?

We need help at DE, DT, LB, S, CB, WR, TE in addition to QB. The only reason we almost won the NFC South is because we played in the worst division in football in 2022. If a team claims the title at 8-9, even a 6-11 team can say “we only finished 2 games out first place”. 
 

 

[Carolina Cajun]

3 hours ago, Shocker said:

Even if that isn’t called KC still kicks the field goal and takes the lead.  No way did that decide the game

ehh, it did decide the game though, it made it impossible for the eagles to win.  now you're right, chiefs would have kicked the FG, taken a 3pt lead and the defense very well could have shut the eagles down, but that was the ending stripped from every single non-biased fan by a window licking moron.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

1 hour ago, Carolina Cajun said:

ehh, it did decide the game though, it made it impossible for the eagles to win.  now you're right, chiefs would have kicked the FG, taken a 3pt lead and the defense very well could have shut the eagles down, but that was the ending stripped from every single non-biased fan by a window licking moron.

True. 

That last holding call changed what might have been one of the best Super Bowls into a tainted/also ran championship game.  If the penalty against Bradberry never happens, the possible outcomes are endless. 

As it turned out, that call made it almost impossible for the Eagles to win.  A less competent coach, with a less well coached group of players, could have mis-managed the clock, giving the Eagles another chance to score.  But come on, this was Andy Reid and that wasn't about to happen.

Edited February 13, 2023 by NanuqoftheNorth

[Mother Grabber]

one could also say that a fumble by a QB which resulted in a defensive touchdown is what won the championship