Brian Burns if traded

[kungfoodude]

5 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

all things considered Icky is far and away our most valuable player at the moment

I 100% disagree with calling a rookie that.

[panther4life]

7 hours ago, stbugs said:

A few notes, besides the fact that McVay was honestly thinking over coming back. I think if we had taken the trade, McVay retiring was probably a lot more likely as they would have been draft poor for 3 more years.

1. According to our own site 11 of the top 50 draft prospects are edge rushers.

2. Recent edge FAs (or trades) with 9+ sacks this year: Reddick, Judon, Watt, Houston, Smith, Ngakoue, Nwosu, Hughes, Mack, Floyd, Chubb

3. Recent draft picks with 9+ sacks this year: Parsons, Uche, Highsmith, Hutchinson, Taylor

That also doesn’t include recent draft picks like Phillips who will get there (only looked at last 3 drafts) or FAs like Miller and Hendrickson who didn’t get to 9 sacks this year. I only looked at 9+ sacks so I’m sure I’m missing more good recent edge rushers as well.

If Burns was a stud against the run too and completely took over games, he’d be in that elite level but he’s not and there are a lot of FAs and rookies, especially this year based on top prospect lists, who can just rush the passer.

Getting 9+ sacks out of one player consistently is tougher than you’re making it sound. Check out this site, it’s great for looking up stats like that.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/who-has-the-most-sacks-the-last-3-seasons

 

Only 13 players have 27 or more sacks over the last 3 seasons (averaging 9 or more).

Burns is the youngest one on that list, granted Parsons just missed it in only 2 years but he’s an outlier.

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

7 hours ago, stbugs said:

Also, to be clear. I like Burns and would never say to get rid of him if we didn’t get that offer. I think even without the trade offer we will likely overpay him as it was so smart of us to wait until the cap got ratcheted up to extend him if we weren’t going to trade him.

I just don’t think it’s as hard to improve a pass rush as people think. I listed out and mentioned almost 20 guys above changing teams or getting drafted and again I set the floor at 9 sacks. The drafted guys include the past three years so I’m sure more 2020-2022 draftees will hit that mark. You are talking 7-8 new available pass rushers each year that hit 9+ sacks.

It all depends on what you think the best strategy is to build a team. I like Burns as a pass rusher, but he's not a complete DE right now, especially against the run. We haven't had a QB since 2018 Cam. If we think Stroud or Young are the guys, we need the picks Burns would have gotten to trade up. It's not ideal because you obviously want to keep your edge rushers, but if trading Burns can get that franchise QB we've been missing, I think you have to do it. 

[panther4life]

9 minutes ago, stbugs said:

You’ve got rookies and 2nd year guys like Highsmith and Hutchinson and guys like Smith and Miller who missed a year as well. If you looked last year Burns doesn’t make the 13 either. Other younger guys who just got to the mark and didn’t have it the last 3 years.

That’s why I just took this year’s 9+ to see how many were drafted or signed recently.

Either way, it’s not this impossible task and honestly just getting Burns lite with a FA makes the trade having 3 really good picks.

Burns had 12.5 last year, so he surpassed this 9+ mark you’re stating. 
 

Either way, enjoy the game and I’ll gladly resume this tomorrow with you!

[ForJimmy]

8 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

all things considered Icky is far and away our most valuable player at the moment

Icky on offense Brown on defense IMO.

[SCO96]

I don't get the "trade Burns" argument. We had a total of 35 sacks last season. Burns had 12.5 of them. That means literally 1 out of every 3 sacks we had was recorded by Burns..

A LB Frank Luvu (7 sacks) was second  on the team with 7.  No other lineman had more than 5. For all the talk of Derrick Browns improvement he only has one sack. Our DT combined for a total of 2 sacks on the season. 

We just can't assume we can replace that type of sack production in 2023 if we traded him for a haul of draft picks.

We need to add players to the line to complement our best pass rusher. Trading him would make our defense worse.

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 hour ago, SCO96 said:

I don't get the "trade Burns" argument. We had a total of 35 sacks last season. Burns had 12.5 of them. That means literally 1 out of every 3 sacks we had was recorded by Burns..

A LB Frank Luvu (7 sacks) was second  on the team with 7.  No other lineman had more than 5. For all the talk of Derrick Browns improvement he only has one sack. Our DT combined for a total of 2 sacks on the season. 

We just can't assume we can replace that type of sack production in 2023 if we traded him for a haul of draft picks.

We need to add players to the line to complement our best pass rusher. Trading him would make our defense worse.

 

JMO but sacks are an overrated stat. A guy can have 3 sacks and get burned every other defensive play and most people would think he had a great game just looking at the stats. I'm far more interested in how many times a player severely impacted the offenses ability to move the ball or establish a rhythm. To me, that much more accurately determines the effectiveness of a defensive player. 

[BrisbanePanther]

1 hour ago, SCO96 said:

I don't get the "trade Burns" argument. We had a total of 35 sacks last season. Burns had 12.5 of them. That means literally 1 out of every 3 sacks we had was recorded by Burns..

A LB Frank Luvu (7 sacks) was second  on the team with 7.  No other lineman had more than 5. For all the talk of Derrick Browns improvement he only has one sack. Our DT combined for a total of 2 sacks on the season. 

We just can't assume we can replace that type of sack production in 2023 if we traded him for a haul of draft picks.

We need to add players to the line to complement our best pass rusher. Trading him would make our defense worse.

 

If that's the case then trade Brown. Either way, Chicago was like one of those dog doors on D this year. Carolina can send someone on D (even Shaq) as part of a package and Chicago will be better than they were this year. They need proven players more than they need additional picks. Someone from Carolina's D stops them from bidding against themselves as much during free agency.

[frankw]

This is still going? You either want to compete or you want to trade away your best players. Which is it?

[SCO96]

15 minutes ago, BrisbanePanther said:

If that's the case then trade Brown. Either way, Chicago was like one of those dog doors on D this year. Carolina can send someone on D (even Shaq) as part of a package and Chicago will be better than they were this year. They need proven players more than they need additional picks. Someone from Carolina's D stops them from bidding against themselves as much during free agency.

Brown would be much easier to replace than Burns. He's a good player, but  so far he hasn't shown that he's a player that you build your defense around.

On a serious note, how much do you think Brown is worth to another team? I would be surprised if we got more than a 3rd for him.

Edited February 13, 2023 by SCO96

[BrisbanePanther]

15 hours ago, SCO96 said:

Brown would be much easier to replace than Burns. He's a good player, but  so far he hasn't shown that he's a player that you build your defense around.

On a serious note, how much do you think Brown is worth to another team? I would be surprised if we got more than a 3rd for him.

I think you may be right on a third...maybe a second if a team is has a huge hole and thinks he's good value for money (i.e. to extend him is eight figures over five years rather than nine figures).

[Panthers Fan 69]

On 2/11/2023 at 3:11 PM, razorwolf said:

Brian Burns name was mentioned a couple of times I think the panthers would want at least 4 picks for him (2) 1st, (2) mid round or (mid and late round) 

Little late to the party on this one…..