“Holes”

[CarolinaRideorDie]

55 minutes ago, ncfan said:

But you’re not using premium draft capital on “depth”

You shouldn't be using "premium draft capital" on depth. 1st and 2nd rounders are expected to start not be back up players. Rounds 3-7 are for depth. 

 

[Barney]

I understand the idea, but I am not sure there is a franchise guy in the group that is being talked about at the top of this draft.  They all give me concern about there ability to play this game and stay healthy at the next level.  The guys below them all seem like potential guys that will need time to develop.  Not sure trading up makes much sense.  

[CRA]

28 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

A 45 to 50% success rate on 1st round QBs is not a smart bet. 

Who was the last QB that got drafted via a trade up ransom that worked out long term...

Wentz, Lance are the two most recent off the top of my head that teams jumped into the top 3 for.

Who else?

I believe history is on the side of taking who is available versus mortgaging multiple firsts. 

in the landscape of the modern NFL, if you don't have a QB.....you don't actually matter.   Which IMO means you can't look at the QB hit rate in a vacuum.    It means you simply have to buy the lotto ticket and keep scratching until one hits. 

not sure why it matters if someone traded up or not.  Just matters where the NFL starters are found.    Which is the first round overall.  That's where you have to take your swings. 

[ncfan]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

in the landscape of the modern NFL, if you don't have a QB.....you don't actually matter.   Which IMO means you can't look at the QB hit rate in a vacuum.    It means you simply have to buy the lotto ticket and keep scratching until one hits. 

I’d rather scratch 1 50/50 lottery ticket vs 3 tickets with 5-10% chance to win 

[mrcompletely11]

4 minutes ago, ncfan said:

I’d rather scratch 1 50/50 lottery ticket vs 3 tickets with 5-10% chance to win 

A couple things here.  For the bears to trade back to 9 the offer would have to be probably the biggest in nfl history.  Hershell walker on steroids.   And as much as I love stroud there is no way I am doing that.  If he falls to 3 then see what’s up but I would just stick at 9 keep the picks and see who falls

[Stumpy]

53 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

A 45 to 50% success rate on 1st round QBs is not a smart bet. 

Who was the last QB that got drafted via a trade up ransom that worked out long term...

Wentz, Lance are the two most recent off the top of my head that teams jumped into the top 3 for.

Who else?

I believe history is on the side of taking who is available versus mortgaging multiple firsts. 

Chiefs and Bills traded up into the top 10 for Mahomes and Allen respectively.

I'd bet they are pretty happy with how it all worked out.

[heel31ok]

2 hours ago, Luciu5 said:

My only concern with trading up for a QB, is if it fails. If one falls to us at 9, we can select another next year. If we trade up, we're stuck for most likely 3 years without a second shot at a top prospect. I have no issues with drafting a guy and whiffing, but what's the backup plan if that happens and you do not have a 1st for the foreseeable future?

Point is, if we trade up to 1 or 3, we better be certain. Fitt's job is going to ride or die on the success of that pick.

Not a Fan of these QBs, but staying at 9 and drafting one makes more sense than what is will cost to move up for one.I think your 3 year timeline is correct.

I still hold to drafting top infrastructure in this draft and get a qb in later rounds that has a chance to be good but still wouldn't hurt us to cut in a yr or 2.

[TJKJ23xx]

How I see it our holes and how we fix them need to align more with the new Offensive and Defensive systems we are about to run. 

Offense:

• TE - Reich loves to utilize TEs in so many ways and our current group leaves a lot to be desired. FA has a lot of options and the draft has a pretty solid 4 that look to be future stars.
• RB - Not only do we run the ball well but in Indy they had a pretty good rushing game also. I can see a few new faces in the RB room this year. 
• IOL - The line did very well last year. There were some growing pains but outside of that I feel we are pretty solid minus depth and Christensen's growth/ Corbett's injury. Some movement here would be nice to see late 2nd or after and in FA. 
• WR - We look pretty good here potential-wise but on paper we leave a lot to be desired, TMJ is the biggest question mark. If he performs to his potential we might have a pretty good 1-2 punch. I still feel we are missing that deep threat that has to make the opposing Defense stay honest. I wouldn't mind a Nathaniel "Tank" Dell for a nice speed WR that can also be a ST threat. He will most likely not last past our second pick in the 2nd round so that is a tough decision for me to make in need vs want. 
• QB - The elephant in the room the biggest need. One of the many reasons we did not make the turn after Wilks took over and to become a playoff team. I am so torn with this decision. I would love trafe up for the guy we want, but is it worth the price? I would also love one of the top 4 to be there at 9 but then I also like the idea of trading down and getting more holes filled. I don't hate the idea of a FA but then deja vu will kick in and it will feel almost like we are going down the same path of the past few years. Whatever we do I am at least confident Reich will be more successful this coming season than our last 4. 

Defense 

• EDGE - Man would it have been nice to see YGM blossom into the player the draft pundits made us think he would be. He is not horrible but for a 2nd rounder that was deemed a 1st round talent he really leaves a lot to be desired. I think the Switch to 3-4 could really help us determine if he can become a solid contributor or an easy to stomach decision once his contract is up. I like a lot of the guys coming out this year but with the looming possibility of trading up for a QB I feel we will look into FA options here. 
• LB - This to me is the biggest need outside of QB. A MLB/Mike is the QB/Heart of the defense for most teams and seldom do you see a team successfully contend year after year without having an anchor overseeing the defense or a very deep room. The amount of talent in this year's draft is really making it hard for me to see us passing up on one in 2nd-5th I feel there will be 1 if not 2 drafted and or signed. We dont exactly need another Keuchely but we sure do need someone to elevate the defense situationally. Chinn could be the in house answer since he has looked better at LB but it is undeniable our defense has been lacking good LB play for quite a while.
• DL - This is a hard one to peg. We have a few bodies to throw out there but are severly lacking with what a 3-4 will require. DB would most likely be an EDGE but we dont have a big body anchor to secure the line. I would personally love Mazi Smith or Siaki Ika, they are some big bodies that have shown their ability to translate their talents to the next level. Having someone on like that on the line next to DB would not only create a mismatch nightmare but ensure our ability to stop the run wouldn't falter and honestly open up a chance for Barno, YGM or whoever else is playing opposite them some pass rush opportunities while the opposing OL is using 3-4 bodies to block two large men. 
• S - Outside of Woods who has his own deficiencies this will be the weakest group unless we use Chinn as a Joker/SS and run 3 DBs out there in most packages. Thankfully safeties come cheap and can be found in almost any round. This isnt a concerning need as of now but we still need to ensure that it isnt forgotten about like teams of Ron Rivera past.
• CB - This is an interesting position group. On paper we have a very solid group but in execution and consistency we feel let down year after year with injuries and CJ Henderson's lack of engagement. I feel it would be best to get a guy in the drafter rather than commit more money to a group that shouldnt need too much help. 

 

I feel we have a solid foundation to get over the hump and make it back to the playoffs next year. A few injuries held us back last year from sneaking in but the way we responded to change after Rhule left was more than inspiring. We need to cut ties or restructure Shaq. Move some numbers and bring in some veteran leadership and depth that will be more acclimated with the 3-4 and just kill it in the draft. Whether that be go all in for QB or get BPA in every single round. I love what we are doing so far and April cant come soon enough to get closer to this new chapter in Panthers history. 

 

Keep Pounding!

[Captain Obvious]

This was not the thread I hoped to see when I clicked the title.

Then i realized i misread the title as Hoes instead of holes.

 

[WUnderhill]

[SetfreexX]

1 hour ago, ncfan said:

You do realize that rd2-7 QB success is less than 1/4th of that right.?

I'm not saying to draft one in those rounds, I'm specifically referring to giving up multiple firsts vs taking the QB that is available at 9. 

Same way we should've taken Fields at 8.

[SetfreexX]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

in the landscape of the modern NFL, if you don't have a QB.....you don't actually matter.   Which IMO means you can't look at the QB hit rate in a vacuum.    It means you simply have to buy the lotto ticket and keep scratching until one hits. 

not sure why it matters if someone traded up or not.  Just matters where the NFL starters are found.    Which is the first round overall.  That's where you have to take your swings. 

No one's saying NOT to take a swing, in your own example you say, "it means you simply have to buy the lotto ticket and keep scratching until one hits"...

So I pose this....how do you keep getting lotto tickets without future 1st rounders....?

The point is that the bust rate is so high, it makes VERY LITTLE sense to mortgage multiple 1sts for a QB. There's no generational QB in this class. Not one that most folks would agree on, there's a couple "good ones" and a couple "boom or bust" ones. None worth multiple firsts.

 

[Aussie Tank]

QB is the position that you can’t settle. We’ve been settling for years and look at the results. This is a unique year where the team with pick 1 has a young franchise QB. If you fall in love with a guy you gotta go get him. That being said it would have been a lot cheaper without those meaningless win at the end of the year 

[Camp Fodder]

3 hours ago, stan786 said:

People always overrate how good other teams are. All NFL teams have holes there are just certain ones that are more glaring than others, specifically QB.

And some teams are well coached. We have not been in quite a while